T Nation

Very First Cycle! Need Help

Im gonna start off by saying ive done alot of research, but obviously not enough to even consider jumping right into my first cycle yet. (im currently legit and always have been)

my stats are as follows:
Age: 21
Height: 5’10 (not sure if this even maters?)
Body Fat %: not sure on this but im gonna make an educated guess, anywhere from 10%-15%
Lbs: currently 155 (peaked at 173, lost alot of muscle from army training)
Training For: 5 years, sense i was 16
Goal: Put on 10-15 lbs of muscle that i will keep.

Ok as for gear i have the following:
1x 10ml Deca durablin 300mg/ml
(its the mexican one, label is also in spanish)
1x bottle of 100 pills of anavar, unsure of its properties because its not in hand yet, but its definatly one of the more potent ones. this one too is the mexican version, label also in spanish

To combat bitch tits i will be getting:
1x 60ml Nolvadex 25mg/ml (SERM)
1x 60ml Letrozole 2.5mg/ml (AI)

But the thing im aware of is what exactly PCT is. (i know what it stands for, thats about it) And when in my cycle should i start taking anavar, nolva and/or letro.

so far my newbie cycle would be as follows:
Week 1: 300 mg/ml deca, let my body get a feel of it
Week 2: 600 mg/ml deca, 3 pills of anavar daily
Week 3: 600 mg/ml deca, 3 pills of anavar daily
Week 4: 600 mg/ml deca, 3 pills of anavar daily
Week 5: 600 mg/ml deca, 3 pills of anavar daily
Week 6: 300 mg/ml deca, 2 pills of anavar daily, 25 mg/ml nolva daily
Week 7: Letro .5 mg/ml daily

this is how i would do it so far but is not what i will be doing, because i obviously am unsure of alot. please flame away or even better help me out with a better cycle of the stock i have.

thx

The vets of this forum will get to you in a little bit, but here are a couple problems I see.

  1. you are not heavy enough to have maxed out your natural potential.
  2. You are not old enough to have maxed out your natural potential.
  3. You need some form of test to run with every cycle.
  4. letro is overkill.
  5. Go to the newbie user thread and read the part about PCT. That will answer all PCT questions for you.
    -This is probably not what you wanted to hear but its my 2 cents. Lets see what others have to say.Good Luck and keep training.

I’m glad to see that you realize that you are not yet ready for this.
First thing I will say is forget about the letro. I would look into something like arimidex or aromasin. Letro brings estrogen levels way too low.
You need to put on some more weight naturally. That weight you lost should come back fairly easy with enough calories and cut down the cardio.
Do a search for “first cycle”. There are a pile of threads that will give you all the info you will need.

Being someone who has been starved, beaten, frozen, and exhausted too many times to remember in the military also… I can assure you, you’ll bounce back and recuperate your old weight once you get back to a regular work-out routine (which is an absolute must if you ever should consider a cycle).

Another point, you really should read a lot more than what you have so far. This is a great forum to learn all of that, like the fact that it’s going to take you a whole lot more than 1 week to get the “feel” of Deca durabolin, along with what’s already been mentioned about always including Testosterone with it.

Now for the military side of it, get ready for your run time to start seriously sucking. Why? Because you’re going to have to stop running 3, 4, 5 miles everyday if you want to grow.

o i forgot to mention i got nothing to do with the army anymore, have been trying to bulk back up for the past 4 months got a few pounds back sense then. i rarely even do cardio nowadays because im well aware of how it affects bulking.

by the way i plan on adding 20 min of low intense jogging (walk, jog, walk, jog) 5 days a week once im on my cycle for cutting, but im a little unsure if this is not a good idea.

as for having to add test, why is that? (by the way i was gonna add propoinate, but the guy i get it off of refuses to let me put all that stuff in my system on my first cycle) my buddy who has been working out a lot less then me recently rejoined the gym because he got his hands on the stuff i have, and he did almost the exact same cycle and put on 13 lbs, and this guy was lazy and never even did his legs.

now im not stupid enough to defend my theroey based on my buddy’s gains cuz im well aware every body is different, just a little confused why test is a must have.

as for letro i didnt order it yet, but thx for the advice i will diffently be switching that for something that was mentioned.

now what im still confused on is when in my cycle, or any cycle for that matter, i should be throwing in my SERM, AI (is it even needed if no gyno is showing up?), and Anavar

thx again guys much appreciated

You really need to put off the idea of doing this for a while and do some reading along with some eating.

Steroids are not magic. If you are not eating enough to gain naturally then the steroids are not going to help you.

o i forgot to mention i got nothing to do with the army anymore, have been trying to bulk back up for the past 4 months got a few pounds back sense then. i rarely even do cardio nowadays because im well aware of how it affects bulking.

by the way i plan on adding 20 min of low intense jogging (walk, jog, walk, jog) 5 days a week once im on my cycle for cutting, but im a little unsure if this is not a good idea.

as for having to add test, why is that? (by the way i was gonna add propoinate, but the guy i get it off of refuses to let me put all that stuff in my system on my first cycle) my buddy who has been working out a lot less then me recently rejoined the gym because he got his hands on the stuff i have, and he did almost the exact same cycle and put on 13 lbs, and this guy was lazy and never even did his legs.

now im not stupid enough to defend my theroey based on my buddy’s gains cuz im well aware every body is different, just a little confused why test is a must have.

as for letro i didnt order it yet, but thx for the advice i will diffently be switching that for something that was mentioned.

now what im still confused on is when in my cycle, or any cycle for that matter, i should be throwing in my SERM, AI (is it even needed if no gyno is showing up?), and Anavar

thx again guys much appreciated

Since you’re dead set on doing this, make sure you know exactly what you’re doing first. Read the entire steroid newby thread and look through Cy Wilsons articles-especially steroids for dummies.

[quote]2thepain wrote:
The vets of this forum will get to you in a little bit, but here are a couple problems I see.

  1. you are not heavy enough to have maxed out your natural potential.
  2. You are not old enough to have maxed out your natural potential.
  3. You need some form of test to run with every cycle.
  4. letro is overkill.
  5. Go to the newbie user thread and read the part about PCT. That will answer all PCT questions for you.
    -This is probably not what you wanted to hear but its my 2 cents. Lets see what others have to say.Good Luck and keep training.
    [/quote]

Couldn’t of put this statement any better…

[quote]Disabled wrote:
as for having to add test, why is that? (by the way i was gonna add propoinate, but the guy i get it off of refuses to let me put all that stuff in my system on my first cycle) my buddy who has been working out a lot less then me recently rejoined the gym because he got his hands on the stuff i have, and he did almost the exact same cycle and put on 13 lbs, and this guy was lazy and never even did his legs.

now im not stupid enough to defend my theroey based on my buddy’s gains cuz im well aware every body is different, just a little confused why test is a must have.

as for letro i didnt order it yet, but thx for the advice i will diffently be switching that for something that was mentioned.

now what im still confused on is when in my cycle, or any cycle for that matter, i should be throwing in my SERM, AI (is it even needed if no gyno is showing up?), and Anavar

thx again guys much appreciated[/quote]

Your friend made some good gains for not trying hard, but I’ll also bet that he wasn’t having any sex during this time and if he did, he sure wouldn’t be impressing anyone. You need test of some kind to maintain… well, testosterone in your body, Deca will completely shut down your production of testosterone leaving one the same as someone who lost their testicles, sure you might still be able to get it up, but you aren’t going to impress anyone with your abilities.

The Test is going to help maintain your manlyness - sex drive, sex ability, well-being/mood, etc. Also Test and Deca and extremely synergistic with each other improving gains.

The Letrozole would all depend on your dosages of everything, the way you laid it out, it would be extreme overkill. Add 600mg of Test and 1/4tab everyother day would be fine.

The AI would start when you start the cycle at a very low dose, or you could leave it out completely unless/until you run into sides - I personnally do not think that killing my testicle cells is worth any extra potential gains, which always seem to go away anyway, by allowing my estrogen to get high, I prefer to control it and maintain an natural level - not high or low.

You would run the AI until or close to the point to where your exogenous (external testosterone) testosterone,etc was near endogenous (internally produced testosterone) levels would normally be - usually two weeks after your cycle is an ideal time to start your SERM.

You can however start your Serm at anytime post-cycle, just that it will be a slight waste in money until exogenous levels are low enough for recovery to start.

Last thought: If you add Test, which you should, you are best off adding a long-ester like Enanthate or Cypionate rather than Propionate. The Propionate should be injected every other day to maintain blood levels, the others you can get by with once a week - twice a week being better.

wow thx alot buddy that was real helpful, and i will do my best to get my hands on some test. i was woundering if i could just stick with nolvadex and skimp out on the AI. assuming i didnt get a AI and i started to get gyno, would the nolvadex take it away or is nolvadex just usefull for preventing gyno and not getting rid of it?

however this seems to have confused me a bit…

[quote]TheBeat wrote:
I personnally do not think that killing my testicle cells is worth any extra potential gains. [/quote]

AI helps on contributing to kill the testies cells or helps keep em in better shape?

I’m not asking for proof, but can you prove that you’re eating 300g protein and 400g carbs every day? because if you can and you do, every single damn day… at 5’10" you’d be gaining weight. Because with this formula, I am gaining weight (400g prot, 500g carb @ 220 5’10"). Maybe it’s your routine?

You’d get gains with juice, but you’d get the best results if you had these two things dialed in.

Read FuriousGeorge’s thread. He didn’t have it dialed in, and he was disappointed with his results.

o i forgot to mention i got nothing to do with the army anymore, have been trying to bulk back up for the past 4 months got a few pounds back sense then. i rarely even do cardio nowadays because im well aware of how it affects bulking.

by the way i plan on adding 20 min of low intense jogging (walk, jog, walk, jog) 5 days a week once im on my cycle for cutting, but im a little unsure if this is not a good idea.

as for having to add test, why is that? (by the way i was gonna add propoinate, but the guy i get it off of refuses to let me put all that stuff in my system on my first cycle) my buddy who has been working out a lot less then me recently rejoined the gym because he got his hands on the stuff i have, and he did almost the exact same cycle and put on 13 lbs, and this guy was lazy and never even did his legs.

now im not stupid enough to defend my theroey based on my buddy’s gains cuz im well aware every body is different, just a little confused why test is a must have.

as for letro i didnt order it yet, but thx for the advice i will diffently be switching that for something that was mentioned.

now what im still confused on is when in my cycle, or any cycle for that matter, i should be throwing in my SERM, AI (is it even needed if no gyno is showing up?), and Anavar

thx again guys much appreciated

I’d drop the idea of Deca. It’s too suppressive, save it for a another day. Just run test for 10-12 weeks at about 500mg per week, best novice cycle. Keep some arimidex on hand in case gyno flairs up, or use it from the start at .25 mg ed, bumping up to .5mg if nipples get sensitive (which I doubt they will since you are lean / aromatase activity = lower in lean guys)

No need to get fancy with this. Just get some test and run it. You’ll love it, save some money, save your balls, and it won’t be sticking around in your system for an eternity like deca does.

Also, I really recommend you get to reading more. Don’t expect the juicers at your gym to have all the answers; You’ll probably learn with some reading it’s actually the contrary. Many of your questions are questions virgin juicers should not be asking at all! READ MORE, AND BE SAFE! :slight_smile:

Isn’t 21 a bit young for juicing? My understanding is that you could do irreversible damage to yourself at that age.

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Isn’t 21 a bit young for juicing? My understanding is that you could do irreversible damage to yourself at that age. [/quote]

I don’t wish to start an argument, but you can create irreversible damage at any age with gear if you use it incorrectly. I know a few guys personally, and have read of more users here on the internet who have had great success with a start in their early twenties. To me, I suppose 17-18 seems to be the “pushing it too early” age for gear use. Just my opinion and two cents.