Vertical Leap Program

Good Day,

Here is my dilema:

When I was in high school I used to posses a 36’ vertical, and at 5’10 I could dunk a basketball pretty much any which way. When I got to college I began to powerlift and ceased to work on my vertical. So now I can barely touch the rim and am very frustrated. I currently train in with the westside conjugate protocal, and I have a few questions.

  1. How do I include plyometrics, and at what intensity level should they be employed (I am not a neophyte to the topic of powermetrics)? I am a predominatly fast twitcher and tend to overtrain easily, so I dont want to burn out my CNS.
  2. I am considering buying either Joe Defrancos’ vertical book, Tim Grover’s Jump Attack book, or the Parisi vertical program. If you know any thing about these please let me know.
    Thank you in advance.

don’t buy tim grovers book. basically what it is, is complex training so after a squat do a vert jump. waste of money.

Here’s my two cents on verticle.

  1. The main limiting factor in verticle is inhibition of force production, and increased antagonist force production as you approach FULL EXTENSION. The muscle reflexes try to maintain bar speed in lifts like the squat because its more efficient, but since the effective load decreases due to changes (Technically decreases) in mechanical advantage as you rise in the squat, squatting actually trains you to push less hard toward the top. This coupled with tightening of the hip flexors and foot flexors (tibialis) prevent the most powerful full extension. Even if you use compensatory acceleration in the squat, the peak force production is during reversal, and you can never voluntarily re-achieve peak force production during a rep once you hit that first peak near the bottom of the squat.

  2. Those with the best verticles only dip at most 8 inches before jumping. In a squat, you probably drop AT LEAST over 20 inches in a parallel squat. Do not do full squats close stance for verticle. If you really pushed as hard as possible, you would jump or throw the bar off your back. If your not, your force production is decreasing. Wide squats are better for building the powerful muscles for a verticle because with the wide stance, the joint angle doesn’t change as rapidly near the top. A 200 pound man with a 400 pound squat could theoretically exert at least enough force (assuming maybe 600 pounds possible in the last 3 inches) of about 64 inches if they exerted maximal force throughout the entire parallel squat range of motion of 20 inches! Since that obviously doesn’t happen, we need to look at what inhibits this.

  3. I think that given adequate strength levels, there are 3 things proven to train you through these inhibitory factors.

a) Band training with a ballistic reversal, or a relaxed pause through only the last 4-8 inches of extension. This can be done with squats, clean pulls with bands or belt squats with bands: just attach bands to the belt only! The last is the best option because it is easier to achieve full extension of the hip, knee, and foot.

b) OVERSPEED jumps. Or possibly overspeed running. You have to teach your legs to be willing to push faster than they usually would. Now I have never seen anyone prescribe or mention overspeed jumps. Not sure how to do them. Maybe using reverse bands in some way? But you have to be sure not to conk your head.

c) Stretching the hips, hamstrings and tibialis on a regular (3x/week) basis.

My two cents.

I’ve got an idea for training overspeed AND overloaded jumps at the same time. I’ll try it out tomorrow and let you know.

Mako makes an interesting commen about the books… i have heard of joe d;s vert book, but never seen it. does any1 have any information on it or where it is sold if it is still (not sold at his website)

If I am not mistaken, DeFranco used to work with Parisi School…so I would guess that their stuff might be similiar.

I am actually selling my copy of the Parisi Vertical Jump method on ebay right now. It is here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=62140&item=7139908621&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

The Parisi video is pretty good because it goes into detail talking about the finer points in the technique of VJ. Its not enough to just do plyometrics or weight complexes. There could inches worth of difference in correct versus incorrect technique.

Regards

Andy

Mako:

How much did you weigh then, and how much do you weigh now?

It could be a number of things from deficient strength to weight ratio to muscle imbalance issue to a flexibility issue.

Also, how long ago was High School?

Sorry for the delayed response fellas, Im on vacation in Mexico.
Thank you for your input, it is greatly appreciated.

Let me give you some stats to clear some things up. I was 5?10, 165lbs. in highschool and i didnt do much weight training because my coach wouldnt let us.
I am 22 now and weight 200lbs. at the same height. I box squat 550lbs. and deadlift 500lbs.
It also seems that my vertical acceleration is much slower than it used to be, which is probably whats causing the decreased jump. I dont have any flexibility problems, I can do the splits both ways.
Thats all for now, thank you!

Overspeed jumps.

Heard Robb Rodgers talk about them once. Hook a band to a power rack and jump. Did them myself a couple times.

I have no clue how they would be incorporated into a training program.

[quote]Cowboy92 wrote:
Overspeed jumps.

Heard Robb Rodgers talk about them once. Hook a band to a power rack and jump. Did them myself a couple times.

I have no clue how they would be incorporated into a training program.[/quote]

I mentioned that a few posts back. I tried to use bands attached to a belt so that they would be assistive for 2-3 inches of leg drive, and resistive for the final 2-3 inches. It seemed to feel right anyway.

Mako…

a couple things: why do you want your verticle high now? any sports reasons??

also, if you used to do verticle training when in HS, and you no longer do any, why wouldn’t you expect your verticle to drop?? start jumping-it’ll help!

also, i’m guessing without seeing you lift, you’re prolly lifting slow(but with strength), and you are actually slowing your body down. add some speed days (sprints, etc) later on in the week…

hope this helps.

Cyco

Great comments above. Very thought provoking.

One of my favorite exercises that emphasizes the final portion of extension are snatch grip deadlifts with chains. Depending on your flexibility, you can also stand on a 4 inch box.

Perform these just as you would a snatch pull, driving the hips through at the end. You can even come up on your toes and shrug at the top if you want. I always control the eccentric with these as well (4-5sec neg.).

Two biggest things in a high vert. jump are posterior chain, and body fat %. Considering your lifts posterior chain does not seem to be the problem. Don’t know body fat %, but like others have been saying speed days, and jump.

Look at the Ask Joe from 10-10-03. He provides a 6 week vert. program that he uses for his athletes to peak for a vert. jump test. If you used to be able to dunk, I would certainly feel that after this program with your lifts that you would be able to dunk again.

You want to jump high?! Look up on the net Powernetics & look for books by Frank Costella, last name isn’t spelled right. I still believe he’s the S&C coach @ Maryland. Also, my vertical was @ it’s best when I was doing the following:

Box squats, once a week.
Hex bar DL, once a week. 3 sets tops!
SLDL, 2 times a week. 3 sets tops!
Lunges w/ heavy wt. 3 sets tops!
Vertical jumping on Super Cat. Once or twice a week. 3 different exercises, each one I do 2 sets for a total of 6 sets. Good math huh?
Box jumps w/ Strenght Shoes, once a week. Around 3 sets of 8-10 tops! These are not depth jumps, I jump up to the box, varied in height.
Front squats, every other week, replaced one of the exercises from above. Also, 3 sets tops.

Sometimes I use low reps, medium & high reps. Always switching it up to make it different.

I was doing the above for 2yrs. It got me a three step 44inch. vert! I’m am currently doing this same program right now. Works wonders. My goal is to get a three step 50 inch. I’m only 28, so I believe I’ll get it in no time.

Check out these articles:

White Men Can Jump!
8 Weeks to a Killer Vertical
by Ian King
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460127

Dirty Tricks for Higher Vertical Jumps
by Joe DeFranco
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459426

What is your vertical now? What is your bodyfat now? Bottom line, being 200lbs it’s going to be a helluva lot harder to dunk now (even if you are pretty lean). As far as training, if you already are doing dynamic days (and maybe using some chains/bands), you’re going to have to choose one path or another–train your vertical or your powerlifts. You could also play basketball a few days a week and do some jump drills during those days, you might be suprised at how much this helps (if you aren’t already doing that).

You’ve gotten great advice, but here are some things I used (keep in mind I’m you’re old weight plus 4 inches taller):

Power Cleans, basically sets of three with increasing weight.

Box jumps with weight, 3 sets of 10.

Walking lunges, full range, 3 sets of 10.

Depth jumps (I think that’s what they’re called, start on the box, jump off and immediately rebound back up). Again 3 sets of 10.

I never did all of that in one workout, though, I usually did a legs day of cleans, squats, then one of the other excercises. Got a few inches in a month or so.

[quote]veruvius wrote:
You’ve gotten great advice, but here are some things I used (keep in mind I’m you’re old weight plus 4 inches taller):

Power Cleans, basically sets of three with increasing weight.

Box jumps with weight, 3 sets of 10.

Walking lunges, full range, 3 sets of 10.

Depth jumps (I think that’s what they’re called, start on the box, jump off and immediately rebound back up). Again 3 sets of 10.

I never did all of that in one workout, though, I usually did a legs day of cleans, squats, then one of the other excercises. Got a few inches in a month or so.[/quote]

I agree w/ these exercise choices. I’ve used them w/ basketball players; used them myself. Luv the box jumps. I’d add heavy squats. And I prefer clean&snatch pulls 2 reduce the chance of injuring the wrists or shoulders w/ poorly executed PC’s (explode 4 the pull- release barbell-let fall to floor-repeat). PC’s can also aggravate the knees due to the required racking of the weight.

Can’t agree w/ the set/rep scheme on the box jumps(great exercise!) or the depth jumps. You want quality on each rep!!! You must explode. Do sets of 3 jumps. Start with 4-6 sets of 3 over 3-4 wks, unload for a wk. Then work up 8-10 sets of 3 depending on your response to the workloads. And remember to schedule periodic unloading weeks or u-r headed for the injury zone, my friend.

If u-r a ball player, remember that on most offensive or defensive sequences you jump 3-5X max b4 transitioning back on offense or defense. And if you’re someone who just gets-off on throwin down, u-r only going 2b doing 1 jump at a time.

Good luck w/ the hops. I know from experience that there’s nothing quite as satisfying as bearing down on the lane, scooping up the onion, taking off, spring loading the body and exploding for the throw down over the deluded individual who thought he was da man who was going to stop you!

Good day,

I am surprised and grateful for all of the responses! I just arrived from my trip in Mexico and will begin to compile the above advice with my own thoughts tonight so I can begin designing my training parameters.
I believe someone asked about my bodyfat, its about 6%.
I no longer play ball, but I bet my old highschool friends who still play that I will be able to throw it down two handed by this summer. With ya’ll’s help I should be up 50 bucks!
Im aware of the difficulties in trying to lift big, and jump big, after all, the jack off all trades is master of nothing. But damnit, Im going to bet at least my 36 inch vert back!
If anyone else has any advice, keep it coming. Best regards,
Mako

In regards to overspeed jumps, wouldn’t the fact that the eccentric is slowed down have a possible negative effect. I notice that the major factor in me improving my vj was a faster dip that I achieved from the accentuated eccentrics of band training.