T Nation

Vertical Jump Gains?

No one in this forum is really discussing anything about vertical training…

Has anyone tried out some of the programs on T-Nation and if so, what were your gains?

I just started Thibaudeau’s “Get Strong, Get Fast, Get Vertical”…I’ve never trained for increasing my vertical before, and my initial is 28" (I’m 6’2", 185lbs).

I’ll post my gains in 6 weeks.

do a search theres several on here. But your welcome to keep a log or bump this thread when you feel necessary

Bottom line…Snatch. If you can build up a very stong, explosive power snatch from the ground I gurantee a good Vertical.

[quote]Brandell wrote:
Bottom line…Snatch. If you can build up a very stong, explosive power snatch from the ground I gurantee a good Vertical.[/quote]

I disagree. I understand the reasoning behind it, but i’ve seen some good snatchers jump for jack shit. I’m certainly not the expert, but building a big full back squat and jumping a lot always helped me. I went from barely making a one handed slam at 6’2 and 185 lbs, to 6’2 and 235 lbs, and tomahawking it. I made the occasional windmill. Sure, olympic lifts helped some, but I feel increasing my squat and deadlift combined with some simple plyos helped me more.

Once again, I’m not the expert, there are some big leapers on this forum jumping way higher than me, but if you got questions, just ask. Good luck!

PS If my knee wasn’t so shit I’d get right back training for my vertical jump. Some of the best years of my life right there…

[quote]arnoud verschoor wrote:
Brandell wrote:
Bottom line…Snatch. If you can build up a very stong, explosive power snatch from the ground I gurantee a good Vertical.

I disagree. I understand the reasoning behind it, but i’ve seen some good snatchers jump for jack shit. I’m certainly not the expert, but building a big full back squat and jumping a lot always helped me. I went from barely making a one handed slam at 6’2 and 185 lbs, to 6’2 and 235 lbs, and tomahawking it. I made the occasional windmill. Sure, olympic lifts helped some, but I feel increasing my squat and deadlift combined with some simple plyos helped me more.

Once again, I’m not the expert, there are some big leapers on this forum jumping way higher than me, but if you got questions, just ask. Good luck!

PS If my knee wasn’t so shit I’d get right back training for my vertical jump. Some of the best years of my life right there…[/quote]

I have never seen an athlete with a great snatch not have a great vertical.

[quote]Brandell wrote:
I have never seen an athlete with a great snatch not have a great vertical.
[/quote]

I don’t know what you call “great” but I’ve seen plenty of guys with solid snatches who were not very good jumpers. Can the snatch be useful? Sure. But not more useful than building relative strength and working on jumping exercises.

I’ve increased my (standing) vertical from 29.5" to 36" and never used an olympic lift. I’m not saying they can’t be useful but I, personally, feel there are more worthwhile exercises to be doing.

how long did it take you to go from 29.5 to 36?

look up squatdr’s post his the man when it comes to vertical training

The snatch is great, but it sure isn’t the Holy Grail of VJ training.

IMHO, the old basics like get your limit strength higher (in most cases squat), and your rate of force development higher (in most cases plyos) can be still the way to go.

I’ve seen Ivaylo Filev (bronze medalist at 62kg from Chiang Mai 2007) - the guy is lighter and younger than me, and helluva lot stronger than me. My vertical is 32" and I’m pretty sure his is at least 3 inches more, my assumption based on some box jumps I saw him do.

I wouldn’t say he’s good jumper because of the snatch. If you are training your explosiveness on regular basis and squat over 3 times your bodyweight, you’ll have good vertical too.

P.S. arnoud verschoor said just my thoughts.

You should go to Kelly Baggetts page. He is the best regarding vertical jump.

[quote]mldj wrote:
The snatch is great, but it sure isn’t the Holy Grail of VJ training.

IMHO, the old basics like get your limit strength higher (in most cases squat), and your rate of force development higher (in most cases plyos) can be still the way to go.

I’ve seen Ivaylo Filev (bronze medalist at 62kg from Chiang Mai 2007) - the guy is lighter and younger than me, and helluva lot stronger than me. My vertical is 32" and I’m pretty sure his is at least 3 inches more, my assumption based on some box jumps I saw him do.

I wouldn’t say he’s good jumper because of the snatch. If you are training your explosiveness on regular basis and squat over 3 times your bodyweight, you’ll have good vertical too.

P.S. arnoud verschoor said just my thoughts.[/quote]

Exactly and to have a great snatch you need a great front/overhead squat. but stand there and jump. now do the snatch. same movement, same muscles used vs a back squat

[quote]Brandell wrote:
mldj wrote:
The snatch is great, but it sure isn’t the Holy Grail of VJ training.

IMHO, the old basics like get your limit strength higher (in most cases squat), and your rate of force development higher (in most cases plyos) can be still the way to go.

I’ve seen Ivaylo Filev (bronze medalist at 62kg from Chiang Mai 2007) - the guy is lighter and younger than me, and helluva lot stronger than me. My vertical is 32" and I’m pretty sure his is at least 3 inches more, my assumption based on some box jumps I saw him do.

I wouldn’t say he’s good jumper because of the snatch. If you are training your explosiveness on regular basis and squat over 3 times your bodyweight, you’ll have good vertical too.

P.S. arnoud verschoor said just my thoughts.

Exactly and to have a great snatch you need a great front/overhead squat. but stand there and jump. now do the snatch. same movement, same muscles used vs a back squat
[/quote]

if you use a simple jump squat you also use the muscles involved in jumping in a more specific way.

I had great success with doing (explosive) high pulls, finishing on my toes. I increased my vertical by about 7 inches in less than 2 months. It was a long time ago (13 years) when I played b-ball more, but I recall I did these 3 times a week. Each day I did 3 sets of 10, less than a minute between sets. I don’t recall increasing the weight to often if ever. I just tried to do the explosive bit faster and faster.

Now, at that time I was not, and had not been, dedicated to weight lifting. I basically did them exclusively to increase my vertical, so I believe had ‘beginner gains’. But, if I were to try to increase my vertical, I would do them again.

[quote]TAKS wrote:
how long did it take you to go from 29.5 to 36?[/quote]

About 2 and a half years.

jtrinsey, do you still use the westside principles? What’s your full squat these days?

[quote]arnoud verschoor wrote:
jtrinsey, do you still use the westside principles? What’s your full squat these days?[/quote]

Yeah I definitely do, just in a different way. I’ve read everything by Louie backward and forward but have tried to look at how he approaches max strength and apply that thought process to improving jumping ability. My best full squat (by that I mean below parallel but not calves resting on hams) is 405.

You should look up Frank Yang and SquatDr. they’re on this forum. I think Frank Yang is digitalairair and he’s got a 40 inch standing vert and I think SquatDr has between a 45 and 50 inch running vert!!!They got some pretty impressive numbers so they must know what they are doing

[quote]Brandell wrote:
arnoud verschoor wrote:
Brandell wrote:
Bottom line…Snatch. If you can build up a very stong, explosive power snatch from the ground I gurantee a good Vertical.

I disagree. I understand the reasoning behind it, but i’ve seen some good snatchers jump for jack shit. I’m certainly not the expert, but building a big full back squat and jumping a lot always helped me. I went from barely making a one handed slam at 6’2 and 185 lbs, to 6’2 and 235 lbs, and tomahawking it. I made the occasional windmill. Sure, olympic lifts helped some, but I feel increasing my squat and deadlift combined with some simple plyos helped me more.

Once again, I’m not the expert, there are some big leapers on this forum jumping way higher than me, but if you got questions, just ask. Good luck!

PS If my knee wasn’t so shit I’d get right back training for my vertical jump. Some of the best years of my life right there…

I have never seen an athlete with a great snatch not have a great vertical.
[/quote]

Krastev himself said he never had a good jump, but that he was able to jump under heavy snatchs. And he has the All-Time world record snatch w/ 216kg.

not saying snatching doesn’t help jumping strength, just providing a counter-example.

I personally think OL is good for helping jump ability. RFD is key

It’s been said before, but most good jumpers have a good squat (or can quickly work up to a good squat if they don’t currently train it), jump a lot and aren’t fat.

Frank Yang trained with Kelly Baggett/Eric Cressey and his training log can be found here

www.xanga.com/flightclubtraining

I would buy Baggett’s Vertical Jump Development Bible good stuff.

You need a good base of strength, Frank Yang has about a close to 400 squat(This guy squats ASS TO GRASS) 450 deadlift, 250 clean and jerk at just over 150 pounds.