T Nation

Vertical Diet - Stan Efferding


#81

I was just concerned based on what he was saying about insulin inhibiting GH he already stated that it wasn’t an issue so I’m not worrying. My son is nowhere near fat but not too skinny either, just on the slim side. Diabetes and obesity are the last things I would expect.


#82

How’s everyone ticking along with this?

One thing I’ve noticed as of late is that my poops have no bad smell to them whatsoever :blush:


#83

Still going with it. I did switch to ground meat instead of the steaks my teeth were very sore


#84

Can imagine it was sore on the wallet too.

I’ve been using 5% lean steak mince. Now and again I’ll throw in some turkey mince to change it up.

I’m addicted to oranges now. They’re like sweets to me


#85

Same! My wife and I are both enjoying our daily oranges. Also, I love salt so that part makes me a happy man. Weight has pretty much stayed steady, strength and energy have been pretty awesome. I’m not being super strict, but following a lot of the principles.

I did just catch a cold however…so much for never getting sick…I thought I was going to be invincible.


#86

Funny you say that. I’m just over a chest infection that’s being going around. After reading the ebook, I thought my immune system would be primo however working in a commercial gym means I come into contact with all sorts🤮

You should try Greek yoghurt with frozen blueberries and cacao powder. That’s another cravings killer!


#87

By the way, there is pretty good data that 10 minutes walks have virtually no affect on 24 hour insulin sensitivity. On the scale of a 1-2% decrease in daily insulin needs. They DO reduce post meal blood sugar spikes by circulating insulin faster and they may raise insulin sensitivity when done regularly for a long period of time, but they don’t acutely improve insulin sensitivity significantly.


#88

Do you have a source for this? Not trying to call you out, honestly curious. I could read pubmed/insulin sensitivity articles all day. But none of the studies would be on non type 2 diabetics or weight trained athletes.

It’d be interesting to see the results of a ten minute walk as compared to say… metformin or ACV.


#89

i will try to put together the original independent pieces of evidence used to come up with that estimate. It HAS been shown to greatly reduce blood sugar levels in type 2 diabetics after a meal on par with metformin, but the problem is that we don’t know how much insulin was secreted to do that.

When we look at insulin dependent but metabolically normal, non insulin resistant individuals, basically there have been insulin dosing tables developed to adjust dosing around activity, and in developing those tables, a standard 160 lb adult will have to cover about 8 fewer grams of carbs with insulin for a brisk 1 kilometer walk. That would equate to about 1 unit of insulin saved, and the same standardized individual will use about 55-60 total units of insulin in a day, so it saves about 1 unit out of 50. It DOES speed the insulin up a lot and slows down the gastric emptying rate.

I have talked to many metabolically normal insulin dependent individuals and they consistently report to me insulin needs reductions on the level of 1 part in 50 for the day for 10 minutes of mild panting level exercise, or proportionate levels for longer or shorter periods. My son is highly active and metabilically normal but dependent on injected insulin for all of his needs, and he uses about 40 units per day, and also can typically consume about 5 grams of carbs without additional insulin coverage if he takes a fast 10 minute walk or inject about .75 fewer units of total insulin, again about 1.5% less. It may hold his peak blood sugar down by 30-40 points because it speeds up insulin relative to food, but the total insulin dosage for the day is only minimally effected.

I can’t see any reason why it would reduce insulin needs differently in someone with endogenous insulin or who is a high performance athlete.


#90

The most common misunderstanding that I read is that low blood sugar excursions after a meal, or low A1Cs indicate better insulin sensitivity. Blood sugar levels do not tell you if your body had to release massive amounts of insulin to clear the glucose and control the liver. Prediabetics often had LOW blood sugars because their pancreas oversecretes insuln on its way to burnout. Only insulin levels can tell you how insulin sensitive someone is, and insulin dependent individuals provide the only easily accessible source of the affects of food, exercise and stress on actual insulin needs.


#91

Are you taking vitamin D? Stan recommends 8000iu daily unless you get lots of sun. I was already taking 6000iu before I heard what Stan said (EU recommended intake is 4000iu), it really does make a difference in immunity. I only got one slight cold this winter and it was gone in a couple days, and it was when the weather was going back and for the between mild (above 0c) and cold as hell which always gets a lot of people sick. Making it through a winter in Canada without getting sick is almost a miracle, Stan says he hasn’t had a cold in years but he also lives in Las Vegas.

The point is, vitamin d works if you take enough. I used to get sick several times each winter and usually catch the flu, this year was next to nothing.


#92

see post above


#93

I may have to up it further. I just started religiously taking 3000iu/day (about a month ago). I think I’ll bring it up to 6000iu/day going forward.


#94

Why not just go to 8000? You live in Canada, right? Vitamin D is dirt cheap at Walmart. There are also no possible side effects unless you take some crazy amount.


#95

The thing with the oranges is mostly about adding fructose to your diet which is supposed to stimulate your liver. If you watch the seminar from Iceland he specifically says that the liver concerns have to do with steroid use, if you aren’t on steroids then oranges won’t do shit. They won’t stop you from getting sick unless you are deficient in vitamin C, which would mean that you diet is fucked as it is.


#96

I should, it is just so many damn pills lol

Well he lists a few reasons that he suggests daily oranges: Stimulating your liver, stimulate your metabolism, fibre source, increasing hunger, etc. But yeah…I’m not exactly expecting oranges to be a game changer.


#97

But since their pancreas is DOA… wouldn’t the effects of exogenous insulin be different for them then say a fat type 2/prediabetic or a healthy person lifting weights?

This is exactly what we want though right? In a healthy non diabetic person leveling out glucose swings is the goal.

Where I get lost is in a perfect world we’d want muscles and liver to be super insulin sensitive while trying to avoid conversion to triglyceride and storage in fat cells. The only way to preferentially increase glucose sensitivity on muscle cells is resistance training. So when studies talk about whole body sensitivity, does it even apply to what we’re after?


#98

They’re just plain good. When it gets hot I like to break up the little ones and freeze them, then have a 'em as a nice afternoon snack. Cools you off and gives a nice little shot of energy.

Another side note- Not to did the guy (Efferding) but aren’t recommendations of fruits and veggies the most basic and fundamental to any type of diet or eating strategy?

Our wrestling coaches used to bring bags of oranges to every match and tournament without fail. That was beginning in like 1981 for me.

@Basement_Gainz , surely you’ve seen this too?

They just seem so commonplace, I never thought I’d see something like this as a recommendation.


#99

I’ve been on 5-8000iu Vit D since I started the diet. To be fair, I could be entombed in an iron lung with a gas mask on and still catch cold from the folk who insist on still coming to the gym, all the while carrying some dreadful bug. It’s just the nature of the beast with regards to the vast amount of folk I come into contact with on a daily basis.

As for the oranges. They just taste damn good, satisfy my sweet tooth and keep me well clear of bad shit.


#100

It seems like some people are just more likely to get sick than others, maybe there isn’t anything you can do about it. I work in a nursing home, everyone is sick all the time and there are flu outbreaks and other stuff every once in a while. All I know is that a few years ago I wasn’t eating well, sleeping enough, and also not taking any vitamin D and I was sick half the time in the winter, now I get nothing.