Venezuelan Prof. Sets Wifi Record

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
lixy,

The Airplane.

Not state sponsored, took off in the last 100 years, inarguably a MAJOR breakthrough.

I will accept your backpedaling on behalf of Orion.[/quote]

That’s a no-brainer. In one word: NACA (National Committee on Aeronautics)

There’s actually a guy from Oxford who did a paper on the issue:

“The aircraft industry was unique among modern U.S. manufacturing industries in that a government research and development organization, the National Committee on Aeronautics (NACA), was established prior to U.S. entry into World War I to conduct research on military and commercial aircraft technology and design. NACA made a series of economically important technical and scientific contributions prior to its absorption into the National Aeronautics and Space Agency (NASA) in 1958. Demand for military aircraft during the two world wars played an important role in the development of the aircraft industry and in the transition from the piston-propeller to jet aircraft propulsion system after World War II. The development of a mature commercial jet aircraft technology, epitomized by the Boeing 747 wide-bodied jet, was derivative of a series of military contacts for the design and production by Boeing of a series of military transports.”

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
EDIT: I was a bit quick on the draw on this one, the phone being over 100 years old. But should you wish, dear lixy, I can keep going with other major inventions.[/quote]

Please don’t think that my mind is made up on this issue. I told Orion that I couldn’t come up with one. It doesn’t mean that there isn’t one. Just that I can’t think of any.

I appreciate your help in trying to get to the bottom of this. Thanks.

[quote]lixy wrote:
tGunslinger wrote:
lixy,

The Airplane.

Not state sponsored, took off in the last 100 years, inarguably a MAJOR breakthrough.

I will accept your backpedaling on behalf of Orion.

That’s a no-brainer. In one word: NACA (National Committee on Aeronautics)

There’s actually a guy from Oxford who did a paper on the issue:

“The aircraft industry was unique among modern U.S. manufacturing industries in that a government research and development organization, the National Committee on Aeronautics (NACA), was established prior to U.S. entry into World War I to conduct research on military and commercial aircraft technology and design. NACA made a series of economically important technical and scientific contributions prior to its absorption into the National Aeronautics and Space Agency (NASA) in 1958. Demand for military aircraft during the two world wars played an important role in the development of the aircraft industry and in the transition from the piston-propeller to jet aircraft propulsion system after World War II. The development of a mature commercial jet aircraft technology, epitomized by the Boeing 747 wide-bodied jet, was derivative of a series of military contacts for the design and production by Boeing of a series of military transports.”[/quote]

Holy fucking shit. Are you really that unwilling to admit when you are blatantly WRONG?

[quote]lixy wrote:
Nicolas-Joseph Cugnot built the very first automobile in 1769 for the French army.[/quote]

The first gas powered cars were built in the late 19th century, and were first mass-produced in the early 20th century.

Not state sponsored.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Don’t go there.

I could cite the Atanasoff-Berry Computer, the Z3, the Colossus, or the most famous ENIAC. But the strongest argument would be that Von Neumann was a professor. [/quote]

I said personal computer.

Popped up in the 1970’s. Not state sponsored.

[quote]lixy wrote:
That’s a no-brainer. In one word: NACA (National Committee on Aeronautics)

There’s actually a guy from Oxford who did a paper on the issue:

“The aircraft industry was unique among modern U.S. manufacturing industries in that a government research and development organization, the National Committee on Aeronautics (NACA), was established prior to U.S. entry into World War I to conduct research on military and commercial aircraft technology and design. NACA made a series of economically important technical and scientific contributions prior to its absorption into the National Aeronautics and Space Agency (NASA) in 1958. Demand for military aircraft during the two world wars played an important role in the development of the aircraft industry and in the transition from the piston-propeller to jet aircraft propulsion system after World War II. The development of a mature commercial jet aircraft technology, epitomized by the Boeing 747 wide-bodied jet, was derivative of a series of military contacts for the design and production by Boeing of a series of military transports.”[/quote]

You’re right, that was a no-brainer. The NACA came after airplanes were invented.

Not state-sponsored.

[quote]lixy wrote:
orion wrote:
Why would I do your leg work?

Didn’t you try to refute my assertion by saying “Since allmost none of them were, you are wrong…”

Am I supposed to take your word for it? Or are you supposed to provide evidence?

You may come up with dozens of governmet aided inventions, there are BILLIONS of goods out there that weren`t 100 years ago.

Even “government” inventions need private money to build and distribute them so their impact on society would still be owed to private property.

I never challenged that the private sector wasn’t good at improving, marketing and commercializing product. It’s what they do!!!

Look carefully at the wording of my sentence: “The research for all the major breakthroughs I can think of was state-funded.” Note that I emphasized “breakthrough” by adding “major” to rule out any ambiguity.[/quote]

A) Your claim came first

B) To claim that the myriad of products that are out there are all improvements of government sponsored breakthroughs is ridiculous.

[quote]lixy wrote:
tGunslinger wrote:
EDIT: I was a bit quick on the draw on this one, the phone being over 100 years old. But should you wish, dear lixy, I can keep going with other major inventions.

Please don’t think that my mind is made up on this issue. I told Orion that I couldn’t come up with one. It doesn’t mean that there isn’t one. Just that I can’t think of any.

I appreciate your help in trying to get to the bottom of this. Thanks.[/quote]

Yoiu would not consider that since the 20th centurywas thecentury of socialism government was bound to have its hands somewhere in their, that dos not mean that it was positive influence.

Maybe they wanted some sort of computer.

Where do you want to start, with Leibnitz mechanical computer or conveniently with the enigma?

Where do you want to start with the automobile? Benz, Otto, or some obscure Italian building a steam powered something for the Army?

The Wight brothers or some military programm?

But I understand there never were unique individuals pushing the limits, only the collective ever marching towards the echaton…

[quote]orion wrote:
Yoiu would not consider that since the 20th centurywas thecentury of socialism government was bound to have its hands somewhere in their, that dos not mean that it was positive influence. [/quote]

Darn! We’re so far off the spectrum that what was the socialist century for you, is the capitalist century for me.

[quote]Maybe they wanted some sort of computer.

Where do you want to start, with Leibnitz mechanical computer or conveniently with the enigma?

Where do you want to start with the automobile? Benz, Otto, or some obscure Italian building a steam powered something for the Army?

The Wight brothers or some military programm?

But I understand there never were unique individuals pushing the limits, only the collective ever marching towards the echaton…[/quote]

I get your point. Deducing that from your inflexible claim that "Since allmost none of them were, you are wrong… " is a stretch though.

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
lixy wrote:
That’s a no-brainer. In one word: NACA (National Committee on Aeronautics)

There’s actually a guy from Oxford who did a paper on the issue:

“The aircraft industry was unique among modern U.S. manufacturing industries in that a government research and development organization, the National Committee on Aeronautics (NACA), was established prior to U.S. entry into World War I to conduct research on military and commercial aircraft technology and design. NACA made a series of economically important technical and scientific contributions prior to its absorption into the National Aeronautics and Space Agency (NASA) in 1958. Demand for military aircraft during the two world wars played an important role in the development of the aircraft industry and in the transition from the piston-propeller to jet aircraft propulsion system after World War II. The development of a mature commercial jet aircraft technology, epitomized by the Boeing 747 wide-bodied jet, was derivative of a series of military contacts for the design and production by Boeing of a series of military transports.”

You’re right, that was a no-brainer. The NACA came after airplanes were invented.

Not state-sponsored.[/quote]

I am confused. Are you sure you know what “prior” means?

Anyway, I’m willing to concede the airplane round to you. But there’s no way you can claim that the PC was anything more than a downscaling of the computer. Not a breakthrough. Mere improvement. Same goes for the auto. The guy who made the first self-propelled road vehicle did so for the French army. Changes in the propulsive technology is not what I’d consider a breakthrough.

[quote]lixy wrote:
I am confused. Are you sure you know what “prior” means?[/quote]

No, I don’t. I’m just bolding stuff for shits and giggles.

The Wright brothers’ flight happened in Dec. 1903. The NACA was commissioned in 1915. You cannot possibly claim that the NACA was the state sponsored force behind the invention of the airplane.

Yes, I can.

Before the PC, computers were ridiculously expensive, took up entire rooms, required an HVAC system just to keep them from overheating, and for all intents and purposes, unavailable to the general public.

After the PC, computers were small, reasonably affordable, and spread like wildfire. Since the advent of the PC, computer technology has grown exponentially due in part because computers are everywhere. Everybody has access to computers. Before the PC, virtually nobody had access to computers.

Also, it was not mere “improvement” that made this possible. It was the invention of the microprocessor. Which was not a state-sponsored invention, by the by. Something new was invented that opened the floodgates of the computer revolution.

Yes, I claim the PC as a breakthrough. Though if you’re anal, I could claim the microprocessor instead. Whichever creams your twinkie.

You should.

Before gas powered cars, the general public chose horses and buggies, boats, and trains over the relatively useless steam powered cars.

After gas powered cars, mass-production factories were built, roads were laid, legislation was introduced, and the very culture of industrialized nations changed to accommodate the car. Much like computers after the PC, cars became ubiquitous once the gas powered car was invented.

You cannot understate the effect the gas powered car has had on the world since its creation. The steam powered car was utterly forgettable.

Sounds like a breakthrough to me.

Anyhow, your original statement was this:

[quote]lixy wrote:
Well then, enlighten us. I’m having a hard time thinking about any discovery from last century (I’m talking major breakthroughs, not mere improvements) that affect my life and that weren’t state sponsored.

Seriously.[/quote]

I enlightened you. Now I am done with you.

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
Before the PC, computers were ridiculously expensive, took up entire rooms, required an HVAC system just to keep them from overheating, and for all intents and purposes, unavailable to the general public.

After the PC, computers were small, reasonably affordable, and spread like wildfire. Since the advent of the PC, computer technology has grown exponentially due in part because computers are everywhere. Everybody has access to computers. Before the PC, virtually nobody had access to computers.

Also, it was not mere “improvement” that made this possible. It was the invention of the microprocessor. Which was not a state-sponsored invention, by the by. Something new was invented that opened the floodgates of the computer revolution.

Yes, I claim the PC as a breakthrough. Though if you’re anal, I could claim the microprocessor instead. Whichever creams your twinkie. [/quote]

We’ll have to agree to disagree. The PC is nothing more than a shrunk mainframe. As for the microprocessor, it’s nothing more than a sea of gates, the most relevant of which are transistors. Given that the transistor is nothing but a glorified diode, I’m gonna have to give the credit to Frederick Guthrie.

[quote]You should.

Before gas powered cars, the general public chose horses and buggies, boats, and trains over the relatively useless steam powered cars.

After gas powered cars, mass-production factories were built, roads were laid, legislation was introduced, and the very culture of industrialized nations changed to accommodate the car. Much like computers after the PC, cars became ubiquitous once the gas powered car was invented.

You cannot understate the effect the gas powered car has had on the world since its creation. The steam powered car was utterly forgettable.

Sounds like a breakthrough to me.[/quote]

There’s a clear line between “major breakthrough” and “improvement over existing technology”. By your logic, flat-screen TVs should now be considered breakthroughs, as opposed to mere improvements over RF and LED century old technology.

Try getting some perspective.

[quote]Anyhow, your original statement was this:

lixy wrote:
Well then, enlighten us. I’m having a hard time thinking about any discovery from last century (I’m talking major breakthroughs, not mere improvements) that affect my life and that weren’t state sponsored.

Seriously.

I enlightened you. Now I am done with you.
[/quote]

Orion had the ability to see that any invention you can name can be traced back to some government funded endeavor. Just depends on the perspective. You missed the point.

To sum up, while the private sector sure knows how to brush up and package a produc, tax-funded research has had an enormous impact on the evolution of sciences and technology as we know them. Therefore, the original claim that “allmost (sic) none of them were” crumbles.

[quote]lixy wrote:

Orion had the ability to see that any invention you can name can be traced back to some government funded endeavor. Just depends on the perspective. You missed the point.
[/quote]

No, I have the ability to see that the governmet interferes with everything which is entirely different.

It does not mean it is a positivwe influence or started anything that was in any way original.

To point out the small government contributions that would have been done cheaper and faster by the private sector anyway…

Anyway, to call the 20th century the century of capitalism completely ignores the 17th and 18th century with the rise of capitalism the Commonwealths free trade doctrine the enormous growth in the US during that period etc…

Noone in the 20s to 40s believed in the free market, therefore Communism, Fascism, National Socialism and New Deal, socialised health care and education in the 20th century.

You have no real feel for the first half if our century where collectivism was allmost unquestioned.

But don`t worry you are lucky enough to have a chance to live in a real capitalist century.

We are going to have throw a flag on T-Gunslinger for unnecessary roughness. Ouch.

And this thread is further proof of Lixy’s abject inability to concede even the slightest error on his part.

Another tidbit of note: of the things that Lixy has tried to pin on being “government sponsored”, look at the number of them that have had connections to government funding for military purposes.

Yet no squeals of indignation from our 27-going-on-7 trust-fund radical.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Another tidbit of note: of the things that Lixy has tried to pin on being “government sponsored”, look at the number of them that have had connections to government funding for military purposes.

Yet no squeals of indignation from our 27-going-on-7 trust-fund radical.[/quote]

If he had stuck to purely military inventions he`d have a point.

Private use for nukes or chemical weapons?

The Wheel, not state sponsored…

[quote]pat36 wrote:
The Wheel, not state sponsored…[/quote]

Pornography…

Totally privat sector…

[quote]lixy wrote:
We’ll have to agree to disagree. The PC is nothing more than a shrunk mainframe. As for the microprocessor, it’s nothing more than a sea of gates, the most relevant of which are transistors. Given that the transistor is nothing but a glorified diode, I’m gonna have to give the credit to Frederick Guthrie.[/quote]

The microprocessor is nothing but a sea of gates eh?

Then I take it that a car is nothing but a pile of metal. Maybe we should give the credit for the car to the foundry makers?

[quote]
By your logic, flat-screen TVs should now be considered breakthroughs, as opposed to mere improvements over RF and LED century old technology.[/quote]

RF? Radio Frequency? What does that have to do with anything?

Actually the flat-screen TVs are just a variation of the LCD (not LED). Which in itself was a major breakthrough in display technology.

LED stands for Light Emitting Diode, like the new flashlights have.
LCD stands for Liquid Crystal Display.

The LCD display is a breakthrough because it allows almost any size display to be produced in one piece and completely flat, cheaper to produce and uses less materials and energy to make one of these things, also LCDs have a much sharper image displayed than their older glass tube counterparts. Like the CRT monitors… the old glass ones.

Also LCDs use far less energy off the grid while running and take up far less precious desk real estate, and they are much, much lighter and smaller in terms of weight, and volume.

Major breakthrough? Yeah, definetly.