T Nation

Veil issue

I consider myself to be accepting of all religions, but I think that this woman is pushing things a little. For details read the story below (just saw this on CNN). I think that if a person lives in another country, they must obey the laws of that land. I don’t consider asking someone to respect our ID laws is asking too much. She claimed that she is only “obeying her Lord” to which I will say that her lord would understand that she was simply obeying the law and give her a pass for that one. What do you guys think?

[quote]ORLANDO, Florida (AP) – Experts in Islamic law are being called to testify in the lawsuit of a Muslim woman fighting a state order to take off her veil for her driver’s license photo.

Sultanna Freeman, 35, says Florida’s insistence on photographing her face violates her religious rights.

“I don’t unveil … because it would be disobeying my Lord,” Freeman testified Tuesday at the start of her non-jury trial.

Assistant Attorney General Jason Vail argued that having an easily identifiable photo on a driver’s license is a matter of public safety.

“It’s the primary method of identification in Florida and the nation,” Vail said. “I don’t think there can be any doubt there is a public safety interest.”

Freeman’s attorneys argue that state officials didn’t care that she wore a veil in her Florida driver’s license photo until after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, an allegation the state denies.

“This is about religious liberty. It’s about whether this country is going to have religious diversity,” said Howard Marks, an attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida.

Both sides planned to call experts in Islamic law at the trial, which continues Wednesday. A copy of the Quran has been entered into evidence.

Freeman, a convert to Islam previously known as Sandra Kellar, wore her veil for the photo on the Florida driver’s license she obtained after moving to the state in 2001.

Nine months later, she received a letter from the state warning that it would revoke her license unless she returned for a photo with her face uncovered.

Freeman claims her religious beliefs require her to keep her head and face covered out of modesty and that her faith prohibits her face from being photographed. [/quote]

Freeman claims her religious beliefs require her to keep her head and face covered out of modesty and that her faith prohibits her face from being photographed.

Even if she’s right, I doubt there’s anything in Florida law that says they HAVE to issue a DL.

No picture, no license. Next!

The countries where Islam is the rule of the day deal with it just fine. The women aren’t allowed to drive.

It’s very true that the converts are the most fanatical about something and this just proves it. How many women of her faith that are just as devout as she claims to be have dropped their veil for the ID camera? This woman obviously has too much free time on her hands to worry about something so trivial.

What makes me really sick about the veils is that this woman buys into it. It is just an old way to keep women down. Out of site, out of mind. All that crap about “keeping them safe” from men is B.S. They would be safer if the men could see their faces and have to treat them like human beings.

Nice one, tme.

Our country, Our rules.

I agree that she needs her damn picture taken for the licence, but as for veils in general, the issue is more complicated. The veil itself was actually picked up by the muslims from the byzantine christian, with whom it was a thoroughly popular upper class show of modesty-- ironicly while the same women still wore jewels. This is somewhat irrelevant though.

The relevent issue though is that there are no inherently “Correct” clothes. It is all a matter of the culture in which a person is a part of. Women in islamic countries generally think it immodest to go veilless just as women in the west would think similerly of going shirtless. There is nothing inherently “correct” about shirts, women in the “national geographic” type cultures think nothing of the fact that they don’t use them. They aren’t natural in their culture. Just as it is a cultural standard for a women to cover her nips (pasties still manage to constitute legally clothed because there is no damn areola showing), it is a cultural standard to cover the hair (or more, it varies substantially depending on the regional values and religious sub-sect) in that society. People choose to do their thing. They look at Americans as being sex maniacs (many americans agree), America looks at there society as being prudish, and I look at all of you (the west and islam) and think you’re all way to stuck up about showing some goddamn T&A.

Remember, there is nothing inherently natural about covering the nips (and I mean nipples of course, not japanese), or anything else. It is just something we humans do because we want to do so.

Strange that they DID allow her to have her ID pic taken with the veil, previously.

Funny thing is, CNN posted a list of Muslim countries and their rules regarding photographs for state IDs and, sure enough, all but one country required face shots, and that one country that didn’t was because they didn’t issue licenses because women aren’t allowed to drive.

So if Muslim countries are photographing faces, why can’t the secular US do the same?

Florida, in its infinite wisdom, will find some way to fuck this up.

Trust me.

Just hope that Florida won’t give in.

An exception here, an exception there…eventually, you wind up like Canada.

(No shit, last time I checked, a guy with his turban got in court and won the right to wear it instead of the mountie hat for his job…Imagine the US equivalent…absolute horror…a USMC Drill Instructor with the same turban instead of the legendary Smokey Bear…ouch!)

Anyway, it’s just a f’in picture that you use ever so often, and in the meantime it’s stored in the wallet, so almost nobody ever sees it anyway. It’s not nudity.

So what’s the big deal? Is that a consequence of a form of jealousy put to the extreme? Whose worse off? The woman following it or the ‘guys’ that enforce it? Whoah, nice religion…

Bottom line: When in Rome, do like the Romans. (If you don’t like the nation’s priorities, there is surely somewhere else where priorities are different and maybe more suited for you. You pick what you want).

She’s a convert.