T Nation

Vegetarian Propoganda


#1

A guy came into the gym yesterday asking how much protien is harmful. He said something about an article, so I got him to bring it in.

Its called the 80/10/10 diet and its from a mag called "Natural Health and Vegetarian Life" spring 2008 edition. The diet consists of 80% carbs, 10% fat, 10% protien.

Here are a few quotes from it:

"The Institute of Medicine and the Nutrition Board have undertaken an extensive study which shows that no additional protien is needed to account for increased physical activity."

"Body builders who follow the 80/10/10 program find that, if sufficient calories are supplied from carbohydrates, their protein needs dramatically fall and their energy and muscle growth dramatically increase."

"Most people overdose on protien and suffer from low energy levels, severe constipation and other digestive disorders that lead to acidic toxaemia (toxins present in the blood tissue). This leads to osteopoenia, osteoporosis,kidney disease, arthritis, autoimmune diseases, immune dysfunction and (eventually) cancer."

The worst thing about the article is that the references are not to any scientific studies but to other (equally one sided) articles and books which also have no studies referenced.
As for the quote about body builders, there was no mention of names or references.

Anyway I thought it would be interesting to dicuss, and also if people would like to post links to actual studies on these issues it would be welcome.


Vegan Bodybuilding
#2

Like to see a picture of the “bodybuilders” that said 10% protein was all they needed.


#3

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#4

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Aside form the fact that all those ‘protein overdose’ side effects are BS and only shown to occur in people with pre-existing medical conditions, I wouldn counter with:

Humans as a species only learned to cultivated grains and other carbohydrates a few thousand years ago. Before that, all we really had access to on a regular basis was meat and fish. Even fruit, nuts and berries were seasonal and hard to come by. If you want to try and undo millions of years of evolution by eating a surplus of carbohydrates and ignoring protein and fat, then I’ll book you a place at the diabetes clinic.

BBB[/quote]

Yeah the diet was pretty messed up, the only good thing is that it was saying to restrict grains as well. Actually it pretty much said you should just eat fruit, how you get enough calories to survive from just eating fruit I do not know.
The sad thing is that people actully take some of this stuff on board. they read a heading that says “too much protein is harmful” and then cut their protein without even reaading the full article.


#5

80% of your calories from fruit??? Holy shit, literally


#6

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#7

Who wrote the article? And where did he get it from?


#8

The name of the mag is in the original post, I can’t remember the name of the author, was a women though.


#9

Amazing how much bullshit is out there.

Luckily, the results speak for themselves - they can follow that crap all they like, but they won’t get the results. So stuff 'em.

I’m too old to argue with people over this anymore, if I like the person then I say

“You are WRONG. Look it up.”

if I don’t like them I say

“You are wrong. F*** off.”

Ultimately it is up to everyone to be responsible for their own education.


#10

[quote]Doyle wrote:
A guy came into the gym yesterday asking how much protien is harmful. He said something about an article, so I got him to bring it in.

Its called the 80/10/10 diet and its from a mag called “Natural Health and Vegetarian Life” spring 2008 edition. The diet consists of 80% carbs, 10% fat, 10% protien. [/quote]

[quote]Here are a few quotes from it:

“The Institute of Medicine and the Nutrition Board have undertaken an extensive study which shows that no additional protien is needed to account for increased physical activity.”

Body builders who follow the 80/10/10 program find that, if sufficient calories are supplied from carbohydrates, their protein needs dramatically fall and their energy and muscle growth dramatically increase."[/quote]

thats a bunch of shit, I was a vegan for a year. I lost a shit ton of muscle from not taking in enough protein.

This automatically tells me that the author is no ahtletic person.

[quote]The worst thing about the article is that the references are not to any scientific studies but to other (equally one sided) articles and books which also have no studies referenced.
As for the quote about body builders, there was no mention of names or references.

Anyway I thought it would be interesting to dicuss, and also if people would like to post links to actual studies on these issues it would be welcome.
[/quote]

First Vegan’s are trying to get insurance premium benfits in Vermont for dietary habbits, Then ask ben and Jerry’s to use breastmilk instead of regular milk intheir ice cream… and now this? One big ass joke, I think the soy is going to this chicks head.


#11

Wait, they misspelled “protein” every single time?

Yup, these people don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about.

Who cares anyways? In a few years I’ll by hyooge and these people will all still be fat, stupid and weak.


#12

[quote]Sick Rick wrote:
Wait, they misspelled “protein” every single time?

Yup, these people don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about.

Who cares anyways? In a few years I’ll by hyooge and these people will all still be fat, stupid and weak.[/quote]

x2


#13

[quote]usaffirefighter wrote:
Like to see a picture of the “bodybuilders” that said 10% protein was all they needed.[/quote]

I’ll see if I can find a picture of me from 6 years ago. I was a vegetarian, and I ate like that, and I looked like shit. Vegetarianism is a lie.


#14

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
usaffirefighter wrote:
Like to see a picture of the “bodybuilders” that said 10% protein was all they needed.

I’ll see if I can find a picture of me from 6 years ago. I was a vegetarian, and I ate like that, and I looked like shit. Vegetarianism is a lie.[/quote]

Well, I don’t think it’s a lie, but there’s a lot of horseshit out there. You still need 2 grams per pound of body weight if you want to grow, it’ll just come from different sources (whey comes to mind). Soy is garbage, plain and simple.

Breast milk in ice cream? Really?


#15

if i had an 80% carb diet i would be about 30% body fat


#16

On the complete opposite end of the spectrum, there is this website:

http://www.biblelife.org/myths.htm

There is a shit ton of info on here. Try to ignore the religious angle.

There are quotes like “never eat lettuce” and it talks about the evils of fiber. Now, I’m all for protein and fat with lower carbs, but I don’t think fiber is the devil. I would be interested in anyone’s thoughts on this website.

Also, there was a vegan on NPR this morning talking about fish oil, and how that’s only necessary/beneficial because the omega 3s balance out all of the omega 6s we eat. But, so the logic goes, if you aren’t eating a bunch of the 6, you don’t need a bunch of extra 3. There is a certain logic to that, to be honest.

Thoughts?


#17

[quote]Sick Rick wrote:
Wait, they misspelled “protein” every single time?

Yup, these people don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about.

Who cares anyways? In a few years I’ll by hyooge and these people will all still be fat, stupid and weak.[/quote]

No, that was probably just me, I’m a sht speller. I just think it should be spelled that way and I do it all the time if I’m not concentrating.
My bad.


#18

[quote]trextacy wrote:
On the complete opposite end of the spectrum, there is this website:

http://www.biblelife.org/myths.htm

There is a shit ton of info on here. Try to ignore the religious angle.

There are quotes like “never eat lettuce” and it talks about the evils of fiber. Now, I’m all for protein and fat with lower carbs, but I don’t think fiber is the devil. I would be interested in anyone’s thoughts on this website.

Also, there was a vegan on NPR this morning talking about fish oil, and how that’s only necessary/beneficial because the omega 3s balance out all of the omega 6s we eat. But, so the logic goes, if you aren’t eating a bunch of the 6, you don’t need a bunch of extra 3. There is a certain logic to that, to be honest.

Thoughts?[/quote]

I agree with the omega 3s and omega 6s needing to be in balance. There was an Australian scientist researching it and it made alot of sence to me.
Incidently feeding most of our stock grain also makes the meat we eat higher in omega 6’s and lower in omega 3s. Wild game and pasture fed stock has much better fat profiles.
I think the common thing is that we don’t need to eat so many grains, even the mainstream is moving towards this opinion.
Interesting stuff about the eskimos.


#19

[quote]trextacy wrote:
On the complete opposite end of the spectrum, there is this website:

http://www.biblelife.org/myths.htm

There is a shit ton of info on here. Try to ignore the religious angle.

There are quotes like “never eat lettuce” and it talks about the evils of fiber. Now, I’m all for protein and fat with lower carbs, but I don’t think fiber is the devil. I would be interested in anyone’s thoughts on this website.

Also, there was a vegan on NPR this morning talking about fish oil, and how that’s only necessary/beneficial because the omega 3s balance out all of the omega 6s we eat. But, so the logic goes, if you aren’t eating a bunch of the 6, you don’t need a bunch of extra 3. There is a certain logic to that, to be honest.

Thoughts?[/quote]

I love how they use one case as “proof” of low fat diets being bad for you.
I’m not a big fan of low fat diets, I’m just saying that there seem to be alot of people with different ideas about nutrition but not many of those ideas are supported.
As much as i disagree with some of the basic principles of the governing food bodies that promote the food pyramid, at least they are basing their claims on actual research.


#20

I find looking at the diets of primative cultures interesting.
I don’t see why people think that just because a certain people group has eaten a certain way for centuries that it is a superior and healthy way of eating though. All you have to do is look at the life expectancy of some of these people groups, and the fact that anyone over 40 is considered unusually old.
However when I visited Papua New Guinea i noticed alot of lean muscular men in the highland village areas.

Their diet consited of birds, possums and occasionally pig, as well as some collected fruits and plants and whatever they were able to grow in a small garden plot (mostly root vegetables, peanuts etc). Trade was pretty good considering everything from the coast had to be walked 20 km on very rough terrain, so fish and crab were also availible.
I think it is more the overall lifestyle though rather than strictly the diet.

They also do lots of physical work which varies from building to climbing, cutting down trees and carrying heavy stuff, not to mention the steep mountain slopes that they are continually walking on.