[quote]PimpBot5000 wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
Being stupid is never worthy of respect. If they are right about it being the healthiest way to live their life then so be it, but just just because you choose to live in the dark ages because you can’t handle the conflicting morality of todays society doesn’t mean you deserve respect.
How exactly are vegans “being stupid” for refusing to eat meat and animal products? I don’t get it.[/quote]
Because the human body has evolved and adapted to eating animal meat and fats. Pretty much every form of carbohydrates haven’t been around in the Western world for like 10.000 years, except seasonal fruit.
What I love is when vegans and vegetarians sometimes argue that man wasn’t meant to eat meat. I’m not against vegetarians/vegans but am against some of their arguments and many of their parent organization’s political agendas.
Throw a group of a dozen men and woman into the wild with little scientific knowledge or specific skill (aka how society was thousands of years ago). I guarantee you they didn’t survive solely on berries.
At least these vegan bodybuilders are doing the best they can considering they can’t eat anything remotely related to animals.
read some of their forums… I weigh 120 pounds, run 4 miles a day and lift 3 days a week while eating 1000 calories, why can I not loss weight, I’m so fat…
Good lord, its like being one step away from anorexia…
[quote]Ratchet wrote:
read some of their forums… I weigh 120 pounds, run 4 miles a day and lift 3 days a week while eating 1000 calories, why can I not loss weight, I’m so fat…
Good lord, its like being one step away from anorexia…
[quote]PimpBot5000 wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
Being stupid is never worthy of respect. If they are right about it being the healthiest way to live their life then so be it, but just just because you choose to live in the dark ages because you can’t handle the conflicting morality of todays society doesn’t mean you deserve respect.
How exactly are vegans “being stupid” for refusing to eat meat and animal products? I don’t get it.[/quote]
There are some that do it because they can’t stand to see animals hurt, that’s fine your just a wuss. Then there are those that think being a vegan is saving the world. That is stupid.
Besides what the other person said about humans being designed to eat meat, you are also not saving the world. So your sacrificing for nothing, which is a pointless sacrifice.
The world goes around based on life and death, not life and life. It’s not the dumbest thing ever done, but it’s not worthy of respect, it’s just some soft group of people that don’t want to eat meat.
[quote]Josh Rider wrote:
What I love is when vegans and vegetarians sometimes argue that man wasn’t meant to eat meat. I’m not against vegetarians/vegans but am against some of their arguments and many of their parent organization’s political agendas.
[/quote]
Talk about stupid and pointless arguments, I had a PETA vegan freak come to my apartment door (aparently she had been going all around the complex) and asked me “Stop eating meat your destorying your body and the earth.” I asked “How?” She hesitated to answer and I shut the door.
I’m more sympathetic to the first group you mentioned…those who don’t want to see animals suffer. I’ve worked some shitty farm jobs and slaughterhouse jobs in high school, and the animals that we eat DO suffer a great deal (save your Kobe wagyu cows et al. who get treated like royalty).
If people are willing to change their lifestyle to lessen this, even to the smallest extent, I respect the decision.
Personally, I’m just playing devil’s advocate here. I’m a huge carnivore. My love of meat >>> sad-looking pig.
However, just because humans have evolved the capability to digest meat doesn’t mean we’re inherently “supposed” to do it any more than having evolved opioid and cannaboid receptors means we’re “supposed” to gobble down Percocets and take huge bong hits (although… ).
You can live a perfectly healthy vegan lifestyle if you’re careful about certain nutrients. You can thrive, even. Although this has changed in the past 50 years the Okinawans born 100-200 years ago were essentially vegetarians who dabbled in a bit of fish from time to time, and enjoyed the longest life expectancies in the world.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
There are some that do it because they can’t stand to see animals hurt, that’s fine your just a wuss. Then there are those that think being a vegan is saving the world. That is stupid.
Mike Mahler has a profile on that web site, he’s written numerous articles for T-Nation and I haven’t ever seen him mention his vegan diet. I was surprised to see him on there. That guy Avi looks like he isn’t hurting for protein or anything. Most of the rest though, don’t impress me at all.
It’s safe to say that most of us here are ravenous carnivores. My freezer looks like the back room of a butcher shop. All the time. Of course I eat meat with every meal.
But come on, people. Although vegans and vegetarians can’t argue with us on nutritional grounds, they can certainly argue with us on valid moral grounds. The two big arguments they have in their favor is based on a Ultilitarian principle of happiness (our pleasure of eating meat is not worth their suffering) and the fact that eating meat is terribly inefficient - 10lbs of grain or whatever per one pound of beef. And that grain would go a lot farther.
Someone already mentioned that you can eat meat that is free pasture, or “humanely raised”. That is true, but let’s face it most of us don’t. If you do, then Utilitarian-minded vegetarians probably won’t have much of a problem with you.
You can also respond to the inefficiency of meat eating argument by mentioning that most vegetarians offer a false alternative -they act like if we weren’t feeding all this grain to cows we’d be feeding the poor instead, which isn’t true. But the vegetarians are right about its inefficiency and the process of rasing farm animals results in a great deal of pollution.
Vegetarians can also argue on the basis of character - that we sacrifice the virtue of temperance when we indulge ourselves in 5 pounds of animal protein a day, which is certainly more than necessary for our survival.
To deny that your dietary decisions do not have moral implications is to willingly blind yourself to these facts.
[quote]Brayton wrote:
It’s safe to say that most of us here are ravenous carnivores. My freezer looks like the back room of a butcher shop. All the time. Of course I eat meat with every meal.
But come on, people. Although vegans and vegetarians can’t argue with us on nutritional grounds, they can certainly argue with us on valid moral grounds. The two big arguments they have in their favor is based on a Ultilitarian principle of happiness (our pleasure of eating meat is not worth their suffering) and the fact that eating meat is terribly inefficient - 10lbs of grain or whatever per one pound of beef. And that grain would go a lot farther.
Someone already mentioned that you can eat meat that is free pasture, or “humanely raised”. That is true, but let’s face it most of us don’t. If you do, then Utilitarian-minded vegetarians probably won’t have much of a problem with you.
You can also respond to the inefficiency of meat eating argument by mentioning that most vegetarians offer a false alternative -they act like if we weren’t feeding all this grain to cows we’d be feeding the poor instead, which isn’t true. But the vegetarians are right about its inefficiency and the process of rasing farm animals results in a great deal of pollution.
Vegetarians can also argue on the basis of character - that we sacrifice the virtue of temperance when we indulge ourselves in 5 pounds of animal protein a day, which is certainly more than necessary for our survival.
To deny that your dietary decisions do not have moral implications is to willingly blind yourself to these facts.
[/quote]
I don’t see any moral or ethical issues here…seems more economical and ‘green peacish’ type stuff to me. lol
Good points tho, although the veginas really blow up these issues to make them appear larger than they really are.
Has anybody ever been around Cows and Pigs and stuff. Stupid…Stupid animals. They wouldn’t even know they were being treated ‘unfairly’ or cruelly. lol
Although we might not all agree on their ideology it does ultimately revolve around self-sacrifice for the preservation of life. I think that’s worthy of respect.
I must say, though, that a vegan bodybuilder certainly faces an uphill battle. Lots of beans and nuts, I would imagine.
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Agree, it’s worthy of respect. The hate it brings for not eating animal products is unbelievable, as if it was worse than pedophilia…and don’t get me wrong those words come from a meat lover.
[quote]Berserkergang wrote:
PimpBot5000 wrote:
Good on them, I say.
Although we might not all agree on their ideology it does ultimately revolve around self-sacrifice for the preservation of life. I think that’s worthy of respect.
I must say, though, that a vegan bodybuilder certainly faces an uphill battle. Lots of beans and nuts, I would imagine.
Agree, it’s worthy of respect. The hate it brings for not eating animal products is unbelievable, as if it was worse than pedophilia…and don’t get me wrong those words come from a meat lover.[/quote]
If I had to guess, i’d say the hate comes from when vegetarians/vegans move from simply having their beliefs regarding the consumption of meat to actually telling us meat eaters that we are wrong, immoral, unhealthy, etc.
I find it a bit unsettling how much hate there is for vegans and vegetarians here.
Yes, it directly conflicts with our own eating habits and lifestyle.
Yes, I roll my eyes every time I hear someone talking about being vegan or veg - but think about this:
Is it possible that maybe these people do this to set themselves apart from the average joe? Isn’t that kind of like what bodybuilders do, to a certain extent? I guaran-fucking-tee there’s some terrible thread on a vegan site somewhere with a picture of Ronnie Coleman, and them saying, “Why would anyone want to look like that / have that kind of lifestyle?”
Don’t forget, the mirror can work both ways sometimes.
).