Vegan Bodybuilding

I find it a bit unsettling how much hate there is for vegans and vegetarians here.

Yes, it directly conflicts with our own eating habits and lifestyle.

Yes, I roll my eyes every time I hear someone talking about being vegan or veg - but think about this:

Is it possible that maybe these people do this to set themselves apart from the average joe? Isn’t that kind of like what bodybuilders do, to a certain extent? I guaran-fucking-tee there’s some terrible thread on a vegan site somewhere with a picture of Ronnie Coleman, and them saying, “Why would anyone want to look like that / have that kind of lifestyle?”

Don’t forget, the mirror can work both ways sometimes.

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
I would never tip a sleeping cow.
[/quote]

Then you have not LIVED!! :wink:

[quote]SSC wrote:
Is it possible that maybe these people do this to set themselves apart from the average joe? Isn’t that kind of like what bodybuilders do, to a certain extent? [/quote]

I see where you are coming from, but depriving yourself of something like meat or animal based foods as a whole just to “set yourself apart” from others is stupid.

Doing it because you believe it is right and for a good cause, on the other hand, has my respect to a certain extent. Even if I personally have a different opinion on the issue.

[quote]michael2507 wrote:
SSC wrote:
Is it possible that maybe these people do this to set themselves apart from the average joe? Isn’t that kind of like what bodybuilders do, to a certain extent?

I see where you are coming from, but depriving yourself of something like meat or animal based foods as a whole just to “set yourself apart” from others is stupid.

Doing it because you believe it is right and for a good cause, on the other hand, has my respect to a certain extent. Even if I personally have a different opinion on the issue.
[/quote]

Right, I agree with what you said. At some point, you just have to let people live the way they want. I know that the last thing people around here want are other people in society telling them how they should be dieting and eating.

[quote]Ratchet wrote:
read some of their forums… I weigh 120 pounds, run 4 miles a day and lift 3 days a week while eating 1000 calories, why can I not loss weight, I’m so fat…

Good lord, its like being one step away from anorexia…

[/quote]

The sad fact is that alot of people with eating disorders hide behind vegetarianism and vegan(ism?) to give an excuse not to eat in social settings.

There are meat sources that have far less impact on the environment, kangaroo meat is one (tasty and lean too).

Humans are omnivores and can live without meat reasonably well, just as we can survive on an anamal product only diet reasonably well. We are oportunists and very adaptable.

If you have a moral reason not to eat meat, fine, just dont expect me to comply or try and tell dumb people that its healthier for them.

Check out the “Vegetarian propoganda” thread.

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/vegetarian_propoganda

Dr. Ornish has medically proven that a vegan diet can reverse clogged arteries. It might be good for some, just not bodybuilders that want bigger muscles. If you don’t want to build muscle and like to eat grass, go for it.

[quote]slimthugger wrote:
Dr. Ornish has medically proven that a vegan diet can reverse clogged arteries. It might be good for some, just not bodybuilders that want bigger muscles. If you don’t want to build muscle and like to eat grass, go for it.[/quote]

Dr. Ornish is a very deluded man.

And don’t think that you have to be unhealthy to build muscle. That is just plain wrong.

After looking at a bunch of those pics; I gotta say that there are a minimal amount of impressive looking people there.

For the most part (the guys) they look like skinny A&F models that have seen a lot of sun and grease. You take away the brush on tan and I’m sure they will look pastey and sickly. Now if only there was a way to help that…oh yeah; MEAT!

For the ladies on there, they look skinny. That’s about it. Maybe a bit lean, but if you eat no meat, I’d guess it’s hard to put on any mass at all. So congrats on being skinny and that’s about it! Here’s a friggin’ trophy.

[quote]SSC wrote:
michael2507 wrote:
SSC wrote:
Is it possible that maybe these people do this to set themselves apart from the average joe? Isn’t that kind of like what bodybuilders do, to a certain extent?

I see where you are coming from, but depriving yourself of something like meat or animal based foods as a whole just to “set yourself apart” from others is stupid.

Doing it because you believe it is right and for a good cause, on the other hand, has my respect to a certain extent. Even if I personally have a different opinion on the issue.

Right, I agree with what you said. At some point, you just have to let people live the way they want. I know that the last thing people around here want are other people in society telling them how they should be dieting and eating.[/quote]

That’s what I was getting at in my last post. I’m all for respecting others’ choices. I won’t bother criticizing vegans/vegetarians for it, until I hear them spew BS about how I should eat. That’s when I get irritated.

It’s exactly like religion IMO. I can respect it, but don’t ever tell me that my religious beliefs are wrong.

[quote]Brant_Drake wrote:
slimthugger wrote:
Dr. Ornish has medically proven that a vegan diet can reverse clogged arteries. It might be good for some, just not bodybuilders that want bigger muscles. If you don’t want to build muscle and like to eat grass, go for it.

Dr. Ornish is a very deluded man.

And don’t think that you have to be unhealthy to build muscle. That is just plain wrong.[/quote]

Why would you assume that, read my post. I simply said that a high protein diet IS NOT for everyone. Neither is a Vegan diet. We all have different needs. A senior citizen that lifts weights DOES NOT need 300 grams of protein nor does a newbie teenager or someone with heart disease.

[quote]B rocK wrote:
After looking at a bunch of those pics; I gotta say that there are a minimal amount of impressive looking people there.

For the most part (the guys) they look like skinny A&F models that have seen a lot of sun and grease. You take away the brush on tan and I’m sure they will look pastey and sickly. Now if only there was a way to help that…oh yeah; MEAT!

For the ladies on there, they look skinny. That’s about it. Maybe a bit lean, but if you eat no meat, I’d guess it’s hard to put on any mass at all. So congrats on being skinny and that’s about it! Here’s a friggin’ trophy.[/quote]

Do we all really think EVERYONE’S goal is to have 20 inch arms and tree trunk thighs? Once again people fall into societal pressure and think looking freakish proves something.

[quote]Doghouse Reilly wrote:
Mike Mahler has a profile on that web site, he’s written numerous articles for T-Nation and I haven’t ever seen him mention his vegan diet. I was surprised to see him on there. That guy Avi looks like he isn’t hurting for protein or anything. Most of the rest though, don’t impress me at all. [/quote]

Avi looks like he needs protein??? assuming he’s telling the truth, the vegan diet is working FOR HIM. Looks better than most meat eating lifters.

Been a vegetarian for 20 years. First it was for spiritual reasons, then it was for moral reasons, now it’s just to piss people off…
I think we are too removed from the act of obtaining the meat. You get it in little packages and it doesn’t look like an animal anymore. It would be OK if you chased it down and ripped out its throat with your bare hands or a sharp rock, then ate the heart raw.

There would be some kind of primal rush to that and I certainly would do that myself if I didn’t have any other food sources.

But I am still making decent gains from eating lots of yogurt, cheese, nuts, eggs, beans & rice every day, plus half a gallon of whole milk. I am not convinced that I would make more gains if I added meat.

[quote]Happy Gringo wrote:
It would be OK if you chased it down and ripped out its throat with your bare hands or a sharp rock, then ate the heart raw. [/quote]

That’s illegal where I live…

;(

[quote]Happy Gringo wrote:
Been a vegetarian for 20 years. First it was for spiritual reasons, then it was for moral reasons, now it’s just to piss people off…
I think we are too removed from the act of obtaining the meat. You get it in little packages and it doesn’t look like an animal anymore. It would be OK if you chased it down and ripped out its throat with your bare hands or a sharp rock, then ate the heart raw.

There would be some kind of primal rush to that and I certainly would do that myself if I didn’t have any other food sources.

But I am still making decent gains from eating lots of yogurt, cheese, nuts, eggs, beans & rice every day, plus half a gallon of whole milk. I am not convinced that I would make more gains if I added meat.[/quote]

Um… I’ve killed and cleaned my own.

MMMMmmm duck, deer, squirrel, catfish, est.

If you are talking about treating animals ethically, look at the milk and egg production. How is that any better?

I live in Costa Rica, there are still grass-fed cows and chickens running wild… I see them every day, sometimes walking down the street and I live in the CITY!
Although I get your point, I don’t know where MY specific eggs and milk come from. I’ll have to do a little research.

My girl and I turned vegetarian for exactly one year, two years ago. We did it because we don’t like the way the meat industry treats animals - plain and simple.

We were getting most of our protein from whey and tofu (in all its variations).

Here’s what we experienced - loss of muscle density, a terribly hard time putting on muscle and an even harder time leaning out, loss of strength, weird skin tone, bloat, and for ME - very significant reduction in sex drive and the beginning of gyno (yup, had it before and I know exactly what it feels/looks like).

I didn’t know at the time but I have recently read some articles on how soy is bad for men because of elevated estrogen/decreased test. It totally makes sense.

Anyway, we put up with it for a while but after a year we knew it just wasn’t healthy for us - at least not for people who train as much and as intensely as we do. As soon as we went back to eating meat we felt normal again.

We now try to get our meat from places that at least “claim” to treat their animals ethically. But no, no veggie diets for us - it didn’t work.

[quote]Brant_Drake wrote:

Biologically humans have canines, forward facing eyes, glutamine taste receptors, and an intestine that rocks at breaking down and absorbing meat. Vegans ignore all of this in favor of an “ideology.”

I[/quote]

I agree. Humans are natural predators. I like to kill mine myself, Deer gun season starts next week :wink:

[quote]Happy Gringo wrote:
I think we are too removed from the act of obtaining the meat. You get it in little packages and it doesn’t look like an animal anymore. It would be OK if you chased it down and ripped out its throat with your bare hands or a sharp rock, then ate the heart raw.
[/quote]

How is ripping out something throat less ethical then shooting it in the heart so it just drops…

I have been a hunter / fisher for years…

Perhaps everyone needs to kill / gut a mammal once in their life (something not a fish or small critter)…

At any rate, my gym partner went vegan for a while, and after he leaned out to 7%bf he re-introduced meet and whey into his diet to get the protein up to 2grams per pound a day and has had great success bulking…