T Nation

Vatican vs. Amnetsy International

It seems that the Vatican will no longer finance Amnesty International for their stance that “women have the right to choose, particularly in cases of rape or incest.”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6750887.stm

So, all that the organization does, good and bad, is now determined irrelevant based on this one “deal breaker.”

Is this not short sighted? “Throwing the baby out with the bathwater” knee jerk reaction that could end up hurting “the big picture.”

The Vatican has lost it’s way helping the most people by their unwavering stance on abortion. Sure, they have put their foot down. How many more disaffected have they created? How many more will they no longer help, due to their disassociation of AI?

There’s other organizations one can be charitable through.

Are they using the saved money to finance other charities or are they buying a new popemobile?

[quote]kroby wrote:
It seems that the Vatican will no longer finance Amnesty International for their stance that “women have the right to choose, particularly in cases of rape or incest.”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6750887.stm
[/quote]

Looks like they could use a little feminine perspective. I say the next pope should be a woman!

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Are they using the saved money to finance other charities or are they buying a new popemobile?[/quote]

Probably a popemobile.

Got to bling it up. Gold rims. Gold trim. Carbon fiber hood. Leather seats. And some woofers in the back seat for the pope to rock while driving by.

All that good shit.

The church is not a political entity. They have to stick to their guns or appear hypocritical to the entire world. The church’s stance is that abortion is murder and the church cannot support murder under any circumstance.

If they “gave in” to amnesty, what does that tell the rest of the 1.2 billion catholics? That abortion is wrong, unless of course you do some other good things, then it’s ok to support? Nope.

This isn’t a small issue to the Catholic Church. It’s one of the main issues of the modern day. Don’t be surprised that move they are being consistent. At least somebody is these days.

[quote]unbending wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Are they using the saved money to finance other charities or are they buying a new popemobile?

Probably a popemobile.

Got to bling it up. Gold rims. Gold trim. Carbon fiber hood. Leather seats. And some woofers in the back seat for the pope to rock while driving by.

All that good shit.[/quote]

cool

To me this seems like a lose lose situation for them regarding people who are not catholic. If they don’t change there stance that killing babies is wrong then they don’t get those teen girls who don’t want to take responsibility for there actions so they start to protest.(Yes I know I’m pushing the envelope here but hear me out on this one).

They are also going to lose because the victims of Incest and rape will want to terminate the baby because they where not in control.(tho I guess they never thought about adoption).

Now for the other lose part. If they change everyone will be on them for not standing up for themselves. Personally I think they are making the right decision.

Take The USA.

They allow abortion, as a law. The allow for capital punishment, which is state sponsored murder. I mean, killing is killing.

Has the Vatican severed all ties to this country? Have they stopped spending money and taking money from the USA? No and no.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
unbending wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Are they using the saved money to finance other charities or are they buying a new popemobile?

Probably a popemobile.

Got to bling it up. Gold rims. Gold trim. Carbon fiber hood. Leather seats. And some woofers in the back seat for the pope to rock while driving by.

All that good shit.

cool[/quote]

I think it already has leather seats, it needs hydrolics and spinners. And there’s nothing like hearing gregorain chants coming out of 9 JLAudio W7 13.5’s running a 1000 watts a peice, wiht mids and highs by Diamond audio or Arc audio. Don’t forget the suround sound and the drop down plasma.

[quote]kroby wrote:
Take The USA.

They allow abortion, as a law. The allow for capital punishment, which is state sponsored murder. I mean, killing is killing.

Has the Vatican severed all ties to this country? Have they stopped spending money and taking money from the USA? No and no.[/quote]

What? Do they donate money to the federal gov? No. Do they exchange any money with any organization with in the U.S. that supportst abotrion or the death penalty, Nope again.

If you have evidence they are covertly exchanging funds with pro-abortion advocates then bring it. Otherwise I don’t see your point, are they not supposed to have churches and/or charities in the U.S.?

[quote]pat36 wrote:
…are they not supposed to have churches and/or charities in the U.S.?

[/quote]

The people of the USA elect representatives. The laws of this country are supposed to be the will of the people. I guess you can say, the people of this country support the legalization of abortion and capital punishment.

Just like Amnesty International.

Or is that not a fair comparison?

[quote]kroby wrote:
pat36 wrote:
…are they not supposed to have churches and/or charities in the U.S.?

The people of the USA elect representatives. The laws of this country are supposed to be the will of the people. I guess you can say, the people of this country support the legalization of abortion and capital punishment.

Just like Amnesty International.

Or is that not a fair comparison?[/quote]

I can’t tell if it’s fair comparison or not, what you said make absolutely no sense.

[quote]pat36 wrote:

The church is not a political entity.

… are they not supposed to have churches and/or charities in the U.S.?

[/quote]

First, The Holy See is a political entity, as it is a country in of itself. They play world politics.

Second, does the Church operate in an environment that allows for abortions? Yes, they operate here, in this country, which has laws allowing abortion.

My point is that they are hypocritical - as they support charities in a nation committing abortions, yet do not support another entity that also does charities, that supports abortion.

[quote]kroby wrote:
pat36 wrote:

The church is not a political entity.

… are they not supposed to have churches and/or charities in the U.S.?

First, The Holy See is a political entity, as it is a country in of itself. They play world politics.

Second, does the Church operate in an environment that allows for abortions? Yes, they operate here, in this country, which has laws allowing abortion.

My point is that they are hypocritical - as they support charities in a nation committing abortions, yet do not support another entity that also does charities, that supports abortion. [/quote]

They are not supporting abortions here. They’re mere existance does not mean they support abortion. By your logical any church, mosque, temple, syagouge, house, business, charity, or organization existing with in the borders of the U.S. are supporting of abortion, the death penalty, and a drinking age of 21 by simply residing here.
If I recall correctly, most religions oppose abortion, yet they are here.
I challenge you to find one shred of documentation where the Catholic Church is spending a single cent on anything even remotely supporting abortion. This I’d have to see. Churches are even largely tax exempt as well.

You generalizations are bleading into areas that are unrelated. Amnesty is a charity. The U.S. is a country. We are not talking ball parks here, this isn’t even the same game.

[quote]pat36 wrote:
I challenge you to find one shred of documentation where the Catholic Church is spending a single cent on anything even remotely supporting abortion. This I’d have to see. Churches are even largely tax exempt as well.[/quote]

Never did I say this. Read the original post of mine, at the top of the page.

Yes, AI is a charity. One that in the past has had Vatican backing. Have they stopped doing good works? No. That’s all I’m saying. Is that clear enough for you?

[quote]kroby wrote:
pat36 wrote:
I challenge you to find one shred of documentation where the Catholic Church is spending a single cent on anything even remotely supporting abortion. This I’d have to see. Churches are even largely tax exempt as well.

Never did I say this. Read the original post of mine, at the top of the page.

You generalizations are bleading into areas that are unrelated. Amnesty is a charity. The U.S. is a country. We are not talking ball parks here, this isn’t even the same game.

Yes, AI is a charity. One that in the past has had Vatican backing. Have they stopped doing good works? No. That’s all I’m saying. Is that clear enough for you?

[/quote]

Um, OK…

Ok…So, they’ll redirect the money to some other cause. I’m lost as to why you’re hung up on what us Catholics do with our own money. How much were you donating to AI? Does it effect how much you’ll continue to donate?

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Ok…So, they’ll redirect the money to some other cause. I’m lost as to why you’re hung up on what us Catholics do with our own money. How much were you donating to AI? Does it effect how much you’ll continue to donate?[/quote]

[quote]kroby wrote:
So, all that the organization does, good and bad, is now determined irrelevant based on this one “deal breaker.” [/quote]

[quote]kroby wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Ok…So, they’ll redirect the money to some other cause. I’m lost as to why you’re hung up on what us Catholics do with our own money. How much were you donating to AI? Does it effect how much you’ll continue to donate?

kroby wrote:
So, all that the organization does, good and bad, is now determined irrelevant based on this one “deal breaker.”
[/quote]

Who cares? You can continue to give money to AI, if you’d like. Do you?

And for Catholics (and many others) this ‘deal breaker’, is a huge one. So, they’ll reroute their money somewhere compatible with their beliefs.

You’re getting worked up over someone else’s charitable giving.