T Nation

Vatican Funds Stem Cell Research


Come at me, bro! I hate science.


Adult stem cell research. You are never going to find a reason that using the embryos slated for destruction from sources like IVF is wrong. Australia on its own has 70,000 of these that are destroyed yearly.

And in reality, those 70,000 in one year? Potential to create 70,000 cell lines. As in a renewable source.

Let's see some benefits you've been stifling...

  • Embryonic stem cells divide at a fast rate than adult stem cells, making it easier to generate significant quantities of cells for therapeutic use. In contrast, adult stem cell (might) not divide fast enough to provide immediate treatment.

  • Adult stem cells from the patient's own body are likely to be ineffective in treatment of genetic disorders. Allogeneic embryonic stem cell transplantation (from a healthy donor) would be more practical in such cases.


So...let's take a look at some stats.

How many lives have been taken to taken by extracting adult stem cells...0
How many lives have been taken to taken by extracting embryonic stem cells...uncountable
How many illnesses have adult stem cells helped cure...73
How many illnesses have embryonic stem cells helped cure...0

What evidence is there that murder and artificial contraception (which both are never okay) is even working in this instance? I see none.


Mak - Embryos have to do the job of every cell in the body, every single one. ESC cannot be turned completely off like ASC can be. Hence the resulting problem of tumors and other problems. Of the 73 different cures, want to guess the total number of individuals alive today? How many people are alive because of ESC? ZERO not one person is alive today because of ESC. Logical choice in the mind of this gimp.

BC - Thank you for sharing this information!!


You are making wild exaggerations that simply are not true. Frozen embryo's that are left over from IVF are considered biological waste and incinerated. No one in their right mind calls that murder of a living person. But if instead of destroying those embryo's we apply them to useful research, then it's murder. Besides it's not necessary to destroy an embryo to harvest a cell from it. They do that for genetic testing on a regular basis.

Contraception is never okay? Really? There are a lot of people out there who should never have children. If they are wise enough to know it and be responsible with their reproductive health that's a good thing.


"ESC cannot be turned completely off like ASC can be"

Please elaborate on this statement.

And Chris, if I hinder research into the historical accuracy of the Bible by cutting your funding and feigning moral outrage at every turn, make congress pass laws to stifle said research, putting off researchers and threatening them with violence and then turn around and claim that your research is for naught and your researchers have had plenty of time and money to verify the Bible, I'm pretty sure you'd have a lot to say there.

Using stems cells from embryos that would otherwise be incinerated - address this.


You mean how many people are killed in order to do stem cell research or how many things that adult stem cells are used for?

IVF is wrong.

It is sad when we consider human life biological waste.

It's murder of a person. Humans are humans from conception and they are living, so it doesn't matter if you freeze them first before you destroy them, still murder.

Yes, just like when certain countries applied humans to useful research it was considered murder.

Yes, and that is wrong, because that is a person and also they are corrupting the act of sex.

Yes, contraception is wrong because it corrupts part of the union between man and woman.

Okay, so are you going for the master race eugenics or are you going more for the one male child eugenics that china is experimenting with?


See, another good point raised here, even if me and Sifu don't always see eye to eye. What possible justification is there for making a blanket statement about contraception like that?


Because it is always true??? I guess some things do have absolute answers.


If there is a God, he is glad that I've been using condoms all this time. I assure you.


See: 'Onan' and 'go forth and multiply'


Leave your hyperbole outside. If you want a rational discussion (which I doubt), then it has no place here.


Yeah well, unless he was specifically commanded to impregnate a certain woman I think Onan is hardly an issue, he would also have problems finding a desert to spill his seed in (on?).

As to the multiplying part, I think we did a great job no need to overdo it.


That's not the sin of Onanism.

Who gives you the authority to determine if we over did it?

I made this about stem cell research and science, everyone took it to contraception and corrupting the marital act.


You brought it up you dolt.


Yeah, because someone asked why it was wrong, I answered. I was just pointing out my purposes. Not condemning. :wink:


You were replying to me. When did I bring up contraception in my first post?


It was a general statement. Not to be pointed at you, sorry for the confusion.


Meaning you brought it up first.


You did bring up IVF first. But, I digress.

Point in case, Catholic Church likes science. Case closed.