T Nation

Var Between Cycles


#1

I was thinking of using it at between 20mg and 30mg ED. How do you think this would go? I would esspecially like to know about what changes to recovery time you think this would have.


#2

You know Anavar will shut you down just like any other steroid, right?


#3

A mild AAS like Anavar esspecially at a dose as low as I have stated will have little to no shutdown.


#4

If you use that much Var while suppressed, you will certainly hinder recovery - how much is anyone's guess.

Var is very commonly considered to be a steroid that has little impact on the HPTA due to at least one study which showed this to be the case. The dose (IIRC) was ~10mg.

10mg is all but useless in men. 10mg of most AAS a day is about right for causing little suppression - Test and Dbol come to mind as proven drugs (with SERM use and/or specifically timed doses) - but Mast, Primo, Stan and Bold are all highly likely to be the same at least.

If however you are using it after recovery has been completed and just to provide a li'l boost till your next run, then it will be a mildly suppressive (but still to some degree) but effective ergogenic aid.

It is my opinion that a dose of 30mg var is a much preferred supplement to training than any of the more expensive (gram for gram) hormonal and non-hormonal supps out there - with relatively little negative issue (as one would get with 150-200mg of T for example).

/ramble


#5

Thanks Brook your input is always appreciated.


#6

Just so I am clear on what you are saying - you are saying that if someone was going to do something low dose, you value 30 mg/day of var more than 200 mg/week testo?


#7

No - that is not what i said (or meant). In fact the opposite is true.

Many people don't use steroids due to the side effects that are possible. Of course many here not only know that this is largely dose related, it is also drug related with Anavar being less problematic than many others in both oestrogenic and Androgenic side effects (although not to the degree many think).

Those same people spend a lot of money on ergo-aids (no boosters, creatine products, stims, etc) and IMO they would get more from Ox'olone at 30mg a day than they would any of those - and with considerably less issue than if they used an equivalent dose of Esterified Testosterone.

Of course they will suffer inhibition at that dose, but i doubt that it would be full and with such a fast recovery being possible the benefitswould outweight any negatives (but i am a steroid user so i feel this way regardless).

If someone is going to use AAS though, they (should) have accepted the risk factor and as such should do it 'properly', ie. managing the sides to get the most from the suppresion as possible.
So i would (of course) value T over Var.

Now i have been forced to read this again 9and write it) i realise it is just bollocks and i urge you to ignore it in full.

Thanks for coming!

j


#8

With the little suppression that would occur do you think this could be combated with lets say 10/20mg ED of Nolva?


#9

If you use that much Var while suppressed, you will certainly hinder recovery - how much is anyone's guess.


#10

I was toying with this protocol. I even considered adding oral primo thinking there might be some sort of synergy with the var, ensuring low andro sides.

But i think on careful reflection its dumb not to add in some test and manage the sides using AI and HCG etc.. So i'm gonna run test suspension at 250mg a week under the Var to keep things ticking on a 2on2off to get slow steady gains, maily strength etc.

I think you should do this.


#11

NO you were toying with running a var and primo cycle - where the OP was thinking of using a bridge.

OP - to answer the question as definitively as i can: I don't know. :wink:

If i were to do a bridge where i wanted to recover as well as i could (as opposed to the low inhibitive bridges that i currently do) then i would use something along these lines:-

HCG 150iu 3x/wk
Dbol 10mg AM only
*Var 10mg AM only
Tamoxifen 20mg ED

I would run that for the duration of the time between the cycles.. so i may use that to bridge two 6 week cycles with maybe 4 weeks in-between, giving a very productive 16week run where a 'normal' PCT would be ran afterwards.

*The var is a probably a pust too far into inhibition, but it may be feasable.

Another alternative that IMO should do very well - but again only for planned bridging not for every PCT/cycle:-

250iu HCG EOD
TRT dose AI
SERM ED

This should be minimally suppressive as far as T and E levels go, it should not cause a significant degree of leydig cell desensitivity and it should allow a decent level of recovery.

It should be noted that the use of a bridge is not going to allow 100% recovery - but it is a trade off between a little extra maintenance of results for some of your own function.
This is why if you are a cycling user that you would not bridge every cycle.

Just a bit of fun of course - i have not seen bloods from these ideas as yet :slightly_smiling:


#12

I will see how I feel with the Var at 30mg ED with 10mg Nolva just to keep my test up and see how it goes. I will probably start this about 10 weeks after my next proper cycle just to make sure I am totally recovered.


#13

I fail to see the point of using such a small amount 10 WEEKS AFTER your last cycle - when you could just run another cycle by then..

This stops being a bridge and becomes a very crap cycle! lol


#14

Hahahaha, the idea is this. After this next cycle I dont plan on running properly again for atleast another 6+ months. This is so I can get used to using this new size at my gymnastics training (everything going to plan I should be at where I want to be after this one mass wise). The var is just to continue the increase in strength without much increase in size and to help recovery with little to no shutdown of my own Test. Do you think that Var is the right answer?

I should have posted this to begin with.


#15

In that case i do..

IMO 30mg of Var ED dosed AM only with 20mg of SERM is going to be an effective way to supplement your training. I would expect a positive body comp. and performance benefits over the long term.

I would do 4 weeks and have 1-2 weeks off everything to assess how my own production was doing - either repeating this indefinitely or backing down/increasing the use slightly depending on my personal findings.


#16

Using oral 17AA steroid to bridge between cycles is not something I would do. Mainly due to unfavourable lipid profile impacts. It's like a half-arsed solution. Sure it was popular back in the days. But i don't think it is optimal. You either come off or you cruise. IMO cruising is healthier than a bridge.

200-300mg of test per week can still help you retain the muscle (unless you are hyoooge). And the health impact of that dose is pretty much minimal, on the other hand 17AA AAS is not kind on the liver / lipid etc.

Now, i see you are actually not trying to bridge. You want a "soft landing" so to speak, with a bit of "stimulus package". I think as a gymast, you would benefit more from extra restorative methods. I know you guys train with high frequency and high volume. There will be a lot of wear and tear on the body. Some peptides would be ideal for your situation.

I ususally back down the training a lot during PCT, and try to get plenty of rest. Once I feel the test rebound, i would pick up the training again. Overtrain during PCT = muscle loss.


#17

Okay, thanks for the PCT tip Meph.