T Nation

Vanadyl and HMB

Anyone have any ideas on these two supplements?

Save your money, Nick…

Sorry, Nick…more info (I guess we ALL are occasional cynics…!)

HMB: it’s effects (if any) were seen in prohibitively high doses, that were impractical for daily use…

VANADYL: Supposedly some “muscle cell specific” insulin “mimic” and “blood glucose stabilizer” that increases nutrient uptake selectively into muscle cells as opposed to fat cells. Forget about it. Again…questionable research data…the high doses needed for ANY effect border on toxic. It’s best to stabilize blood glucose levels via carb choices and nutrient partitioning.

Bill Phillips gained 5 pounds of muscle and lost 5 pounds of fat on each of those products for a combined total of 10 pounds muscle gain and 10 pounds fat loss.

I think the “Dirty Tricks” article at T-mag talked about why these supps failed. Look it up. Great article.

Hopefully you guys have come to trust my judgement and will take this as truth and not the placebo effect or something… I tried Vanadyl Sulfate back in my Muscle and Fitness days (before T-Mag) and had one really intense result. I took my first serving of vanadyl after a workout with a very high quality protein and glucose polymers. The result was the most intense pump I’ve ever had. It lasted for about 2 hours and never happened again. I’ve always wondered how a BB (natural) on contest day would benefit from this single dose.
Keep in mind that once you take it, it’s in your system for months and you’ll probably never get the same result that I experienced if you get it at all. I had zero results in weight or strength increases as well. Take home message being if you can get your hands on 2 pills without wasting the cash on the whole bottle, give it a try, but IF you get a similar effect that I did, it’s been my experience that you’ll never get it again.

This is where people who don’t do their homework lose out. In order to know what a particular ingredient is supposed to do, you need to research that ingredient, go to the journals and read the studies. You need to evaluate the methodology of the studies, assess the dosages administered to the subjects, review all the characteristics of the subjects and then, maybe then, you might know that, for example, in the case of HMB, you need at least 3g a day or more to be effective–this when most supp companies only put shards of that amount in their products…Even then, each individual supplement is going to have individual effects on you, so you need to do more homework, and monitor, very carefully, your diet and progress while on these supps.

I thought i was the only one who noticed that Bill Phillips gained 5 lbs with each supplement that came out yet still weighed 195.

I never got anything from HMB but i used vanadyl sulfate back when it came out and it was actually the first supplement i ever used that showed a very noticeable result. Every time i used it within a week or so i’d get much better pumps and especially vascularity and my physique would tighten up considerably. I knew quite a few people who noticed the same results and also quite a few people who didn’t notice a thing. I no longer use it due to toxicity issues but I will admit that I haven’t noticed anything quite like it from ala or any of the other insulin potentiating substances. Part of this is I believe substances like ALA “help” insulin do it’s job better whereas vanadyl actually mimicks insulin.

How tall was BP

Save your money. HMB is a complete waste. Vanadyl may push a little more glycogen into your muscle, but they won’t be one whit stronger.

If I may notice, most CEOs of supplement companies and magazines :wink: are like that…

HMB feel victim to the hype that’s for sure.From I have read,its effects if any, are accumualative and dose should be closer to 5gm/day.Initially given the high price of even 3gr/day coupled with the long results period, most users may have given up shortly.I think it was also later said to be more useful during cutting phases to spare muscle tissue.Methoxy will likely put the final nail in the coffin.

It seems that HMB is most effective at preventing muscle proteolysis, so I think its main use should be during a cut phase…Keep in mind, that HMB is a metabolite of leucine (A BCAA) so to make supplementation of HMB ideal, you should also be supping on BCAA’s in strict amounts to maximize the potentiation of your HMB…I think people thought HMB was going to get them jacked, but BCAA’s and HMB are more intrical in prevent muscle proteolysis during starvation or other severe circumstances such as people who have been badly burned…keep in mind you must continue hard resistance training throughout your cut (volume lowered however) and you most likely should supp on HMB and aminos prior to your workout, and then again following, but i might suggest that prior to your workout is the more important timing in this case.