Valley of the Wolves Iraq

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]Diomede wrote:
Are live people killed for organs? I’m sure.[/quote]

What you quoted didn’t say they were harvested live. What makes you think this? You wrote above:

That would imply they were killed to harvest the organs. That sounds like some sick shit and I don’t have a clue if anything like that ever went down specifically. I am just letting you know that it happens.

[quote]
But this is a movie, made by a muslim, which depicts American soldiers bringing LIVE muslims to JEWISH doctors to have their organs harvested for RICH Americans.

If this is not as stereotypical as it gets, i dont know what is.

It is pure anti american/anti semitic propaganda.[/quote]

From what I have read, it is no doubt anti-american. My question to you is, were you unaware that others saw us this way? Do you see no value in understanding where some of these people are coming from? Or do you hold the opinion that anyone who dares make a movie that doesn’t paint us in a positive light is wrong and crazy? There are two sides to every story. Propoganda is leaving one side out. To my knowledge, I very rarely hear what these people truly think aside from what is filtered to us or what we now see in riot footage.

22

[quote]Mad Titan wrote:
Prof x more times than naught i agree with your post but this time however I don’t know where you’re going with this. As a former marine who was one of the first on the in afghanistan right after sep 11 I can’t tell you how tired and irritated I am when people “we should spend some time understanding the cultures of these people and factor that into our own actions” I have noticed its always people on the outside saying this. If you only new what goes into an operation I doubt people would be saying the above statement.

we have come a long way from where we are at during world war 2 i.e. using flame throwers on people. Hell nowadays we tell the enemy "operation ______ will begin on this day at this hour etc well you get the geist…part the reason to make sure women and children are out of the way…most times the cowards use them as shields anyway and blame it on us. the point is there is a lot factors that goes into our (the U.S. Military to be more specific My marines) actions. Now are we going to be able to cover every angle ? No…when a certain aspect is missed that’s what media jumps on leaving out the greater good…anyway I’m throught with my rant
[/quote]

Where I am going with this is honest discussion about both sides. I have never been in combat, however, I have been on missions that required the full cooperation of everyone aboard. My take on this is that these people have every right to make a movie from their perspective. I am actually interested in what their perspective is because I don’t honestly know. I only know our’s. Is their perspective important? Are you saying that it isn’t?

23

[quote]Mad Titan wrote:
No…when a certain aspect is missed that’s what media jumps on leaving out the greater good…anyway I’m throught with my rant
[/quote]

Also, to focus in on this specifically, that seems to be the downside of proclaiming ourselves the superior to smaller countries. Any help we give is either never enough or an attack to take them over, and any lack of help implies we simply don’t care. We did it ourselves in New Orleans footage leaving out the help that others were giving to focus on the negative as far as our own media. This is about a movie that seems to focus in on certain aspects. I am still unlear as to what the entire movie is about or if it is even worth discussing. I don’t see a problem with it being made, however or discussing both sides of an issue.

24

This is foreign movie. Movies make the villains, well, villainous. Ours do, why shouldn’t they?

25

[quote]sugarfree wrote:
This is foreign movie. Movies make the villains, well, villainous. Ours do, why shouldn’t they?[/quote]

Good point. I bought the last 24 series season 4 on DVD. if that isn’t “anti-muslim”, I don’t know what is. Was it good? Hell yes. Did the “hero” in the series do some illegal shit to get the job done? Yes, he did. Was that “anti-american”? I guess that depends on the perspective, huh?

26

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Diomede wrote:
Are live people killed for organs? I’m sure.

What you quoted didn’t say they were harvested live. What makes you think this? You wrote above:
and drag those left alive to Abu Ghraib prison - where a Jewish doctor cuts out their organs,
That would imply they were killed to harvest the organs. That sounds like some sick shit and I don’t have a clue if anything like that ever went down specifically. I am just letting you know that it happens.

But this is a movie, made by a muslim, which depicts American soldiers bringing LIVE muslims to JEWISH doctors to have their organs harvested for RICH Americans.

If this is not as stereotypical as it gets, i dont know what is.

It is pure anti american/anti semitic propaganda.

From what I have read, it is no doubt anti-american. My question to you is, were you unaware that others saw us this way? Do you see no value in understanding where some of these people are coming from? Or do you hold the opinion that anyone who dares make a movie that doesn’t paint us in a positive light is wrong and crazy? There are two sides to every story. Propoganda is leaving one side out. To my knowledge, I very rarely hear what these people truly think aside from what is filtered to us or what we now see in riot footage.[/quote]

they were “brought back alive” and then ahd their organs taken. Either they were just happened to die…and then had their organs harvested…or they were killed for their organs… Why are you arguing such stupid semantics?

I’ve spent considerable time overseas(have lived overseas too). Yes, i am aware that there is quite a bit of hate for us.

Someone who paints us as people who ‘drag live humans’ to jewish doctors to have their organs harvested for rich americans IS WRONG. Do you have ANY proof of this?

Of course i dont think anyone who paints us in a light less than savory is wrong or crazy. I think someone who paints us as people who will drag live humans to jewish doctors to have their organs harvested is WRONG.

Stop trying to interpret what i’m saying as a general across the board statement about films not showing us in a favorable light. This is VERY specific.

Show me that there is any fact in this story, otherwise it is anti american propaganda. At this point, you are arguing just to argue.

27

[quote]sugarfree wrote:
This is foreign movie. Movies make the villains, well, villainous. Ours do, why shouldn’t they?[/quote]

No one says they don’t have the right. We have the right to call it what it is: anti american propaganda.

28

[quote]Diomede wrote:
they were “brought back alive” and then ahd their organs taken. Either they were just happened to die…and then had their organs harvested…or they were killed for their organs… Why are you arguing such stupid semantics?

I’ve spent considerable time overseas(have lived overseas too). Yes, i am aware that there is quite a bit of hate for us.

Someone who paints us as people who ‘drag live humans’ to jewish doctors to have their organs harvested for rich americans IS WRONG. Do you have ANY proof of this?

Of course i dont think anyone who paints us in a light less than savory is wrong or crazy. I think someone who paints us as people who will drag live humans to jewish doctors to have their organs harvested is WRONG.

Stop trying to interpret what i’m saying as a general across the board statement about films not showing us in a favorable light. This is VERY specific.

Show me that there is any fact in this story, otherwise it is anti american propaganda. At this point, you are arguing just to argue.[/quote]

No one is arguing with you about some scene about organ harvest. No one has said this happens in the military and I sincerely doubt it does. I am just telling you organ harvesting does happen and organs are sold on the black market. No one is cheering on “propoganda” and no one is saying the anti-american stance is absolutely justified. I have not seen the movie. Have you? The entire discussion is about whether their point of view deserves to be told, not what to call it. Until someone actually sees the movie, that is basically ALL we can discuss about it. Someone could say everyone in this thread is “arguing just to argue” because not one of us has seen the movie.

29

http://www.kaijushakedown.com/2006/02/valley_of_the_w.html

A review.

30

[quote]doogie wrote:
http://www.kaijushakedown.com/2006/02/valley_of_the_w.html

A review.

[/quote]

He makes it seem like a low budget comedy, definitely not worth the emotion being spent on how “anti-american” it is. Apparently, the scenes causing the controversy aren’t even the main points of the film. Oh well, there has to be something to complain about.

I do have to say that, bringing 24 back into this, if watchers of that show can believe all of the illegal shit our government does behind the scenes is believable, why get riled because of a scene about selling organs on Ebay?

31

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Mad Titan wrote:
No…when a certain aspect is missed that’s what media jumps on leaving out the greater good…anyway I’m throught with my rant

Also, to focus in on this specifically, that seems to be the downside of proclaiming ourselves the superior to smaller countries. Any help we give is either never enough or an attack to take them over, and any lack of help implies we simply don’t care. We did it ourselves in New Orleans footage leaving out the help that others were giving to focus on the negative as far as our own media. This is about a movie that seems to focus in on certain aspects. I am still unlear as to what the entire movie is about or if it is even worth discussing. I don’t see a problem with it being made, however or discussing both sides of an issue.[/quote]

I too favor discussion of this in its ENTIRETY. However, do you ever notice whenever an opinion about the west (U.S. to be specific) arises from that part of world, media (ours and their media) seem to focus on the negative. I know for a fact every opinion that comes out from that region isn’t all negative but yet that’s what both media focuses on. I say if you’re going to present a story cover all sides…

32

[quote]Mad Titan wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Mad Titan wrote:
No…when a certain aspect is missed that’s what media jumps on leaving out the greater good…anyway I’m throught with my rant

Also, to focus in on this specifically, that seems to be the downside of proclaiming ourselves the superior to smaller countries. Any help we give is either never enough or an attack to take them over, and any lack of help implies we simply don’t care. We did it ourselves in New Orleans footage leaving out the help that others were giving to focus on the negative as far as our own media. This is about a movie that seems to focus in on certain aspects. I am still unlear as to what the entire movie is about or if it is even worth discussing. I don’t see a problem with it being made, however or discussing both sides of an issue.

I too favor discussion of this in its ENTIRETY. However, do you ever notice whenever an opinion about the west (U.S. to be specific) arises from that part of world, media (ours and their media) seem to focus on the negative. I know for a fact every opinion that comes out from that region isn’t all negative but yet that’s what both media focuses on. I say if you’re going to present a story cover all sides…
[/quote]

I think that is all media and it is because that is what pays. You see it from stories as basic as pop stars who cheat on their wives to international policies. Controversy, scandle and turmoil sells newspapers. Only the most conservative mindsets seem to think of this in terms of “liberal vs conservative” instead of “what makes more money”.

As far as this movie, we have examples in our pop culture with regards to tv shows and movies that many hail as “great” that also show things like I mentioned in 24. Who here would label that show as “liberal”? Yet they show many illegal acts in the process of catching terrorists on that show. Is it “anti-american”? Only if you are so rigid that you can’t seperate entertainment from reality.

33

Prof X,

Just curious. If an American studio made a movie depicting Saddam’s men using power drills on children, while forcing their parents to watch, would you defend the studio’s right to make that movie? (I don’t remember where I read all of Saddam’s atrocities, btw.)
Also, since you believe in ‘sins of ommission’, do you think any leaders in this country should denounce the Turkish movie?

Oh, Netscape does have an actual site, with news, and so forth. It is not simply another ‘Google’.

Thanks for your input, Prof!

34

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Prof X,

Just curious. If an American studio made a movie depicting Saddam’s men using power drills on children, while forcing their parents to watch, would you defend the studio’s right to make that movie? (I don’t remember where I read all of Saddam’s atrocities, btw.)
Also, since you believe in ‘sins of ommission’, do you think any leaders in this country should denounce the Turkish movie?

Oh, Netscape does have an actual site, with news, and so forth. It is not simply another ‘Google’.

Thanks for your input, Prof![/quote]

Simply another Google? Google has news as well. How uninformed are you? It is a browser just like Google. You don’t list that as a source. You are a teacher? Who gives a shit if a movie was made about Sadaam and power drills? If the movie sucks, no one will pay to see it. Further, as I keep bringing up instances IN OUR OWN culture where our government is not painted in the most moral light in movies and television shows, why would a leader in this country feel the need to denounce it? Denounce what? Freedom of speech?

35

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Prof X,

Just curious. If an American studio made a movie depicting Saddam’s men using power drills on children, while forcing their parents to watch, would you defend the studio’s right to make that movie? (I don’t remember where I read all of Saddam’s atrocities, btw.)
Also, since you believe in ‘sins of ommission’, do you think any leaders in this country should denounce the Turkish movie?

Oh, Netscape does have an actual site, with news, and so forth. It is not simply another ‘Google’.

Thanks for your input, Prof!

Simply another Google? Google has news as well. How uninformed are you? It is a browser just like Google. You don’t list that as a source. You are a teacher? Who gives a shit if a movie was made about Sadaam and power drills? If the movie sucks, no one will pay to see it. Further, as I keep bringing up instances IN OUR OWN culture where our government is not painted in the most moral light in movies and television shows, why would a leader in this country feel the need to denounce it? Denounce what? Freedom of speech?[/quote]

Hey, sorry to catch you at the wrong time of the month, Professor. Next time, I won’t ask respectfully. What do you do if one of your patients asks you a question, respectfully, insult them too?

36

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Hey, sorry to catch you at the wrong time of the month, Professor. Next time, I won’t ask respectfully. What do you do if one of your patients asks you a question, respectfully, insult them too?
[/quote]

How were you insulted? You didn’t know something and tried to act as if it was me who didn’t understand what Google was. Not one insult was thrown at you other than questioning your own action in that regard. Instead of admitting you were wrong, you decided to act as if I was clueless about what a browser was. Honestly, you truly think this way or is this an act?

37

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Hey, sorry to catch you at the wrong time of the month, Professor. Next time, I won’t ask respectfully. What do you do if one of your patients asks you a question, respectfully, insult them too?

How were you insulted? You didn’t know something and tried to act as if it was me who didn’t understand what Google was. Not one insult was thrown at you other than questioning your own action in that regard. Instead of admitting you were wrong, you decided to act as if I was clueless about what a browser was. Honestly, you truly think this way or is this an act?[/quote]

You questioned my intelligence, because I am unfamiliar with a browser? You said ‘Are you a teacher?’ What if I said “You’re a doctor?”

Man, you’ll do anything to avoid answering questions.
(1) Would you condemn the movie about torturing children?
(2) Should anyone in high politics denounce ‘Wolves’?

Just answer Yes or No? How the hell hard is that?

38

[quote]Professor X wrote:
How were you insulted? You didn’t know something and tried to act as if it was me who didn’t understand what Google was. Not one insult was thrown at you other than questioning your own action in that regard. Instead of admitting you were wrong, you decided to act as if I was clueless about what a browser was. Honestly, you truly think this way or is this an act?[/quote]

It was Netscape. Are you a Professor of Reading?

39

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Hey, sorry to catch you at the wrong time of the month, Professor. Next time, I won’t ask respectfully. What do you do if one of your patients asks you a question, respectfully, insult them too?

How were you insulted? You didn’t know something and tried to act as if it was me who didn’t understand what Google was. Not one insult was thrown at you other than questioning your own action in that regard. Instead of admitting you were wrong, you decided to act as if I was clueless about what a browser was. Honestly, you truly think this way or is this an act?

You questioned my intelligence, because I am unfamiliar with a browser? You said ‘Are you a teacher?’ What if I said “You’re a doctor?”

Man, you’ll do anything to avoid answering questions.
(1) Would you condemn the movie about torturing children?
(2) Should anyone in high politics denounce ‘Wolves’?

Just answer Yes or No? How the hell hard is that?

[/quote]

NO, I would not condemn a movie that was about torturing children the same way I didn’t condemn Hostel which was about torturing adults. What is your point? Should someone “denounce” a damn movie? Hell no. It is freedom of speech and unless this movie is somehow harming a group of people directly, it should not be “denounced”. You have a CHOICE to either go see a movie or NOT go see a movie. The kind of world you are describing is not one I want to be a part of. I don’t want someone like you dictating what I can or can’t watch.

40

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Professor X wrote:
How were you insulted? You didn’t know something and tried to act as if it was me who didn’t understand what Google was. Not one insult was thrown at you other than questioning your own action in that regard. Instead of admitting you were wrong, you decided to act as if I was clueless about what a browser was. Honestly, you truly think this way or is this an act?

It was Netscape. Are you a Professor of Reading?
[/quote]

No one miunderstood you, dear misguided one. I compared it to Google. You sure are slow. Oops, I guess that was insult to point out the obvious.