T Nation

V-Diet Protein Source


#1

Hey guys, I'm going to make the typical broke college student post here....

I want to do the Velocity Diet over my winter break but I don't plan on using ALL Metabolic Drive. I will be using some Metabolic Drive, but for some of the shakes, I'd like to make a protein blend.

I was thinking something along the lines of:
Micellular Casein 30%
Calcium Caseinate 30%
Milk Protein Isolate 15%
Whey Concentrate 25%

Do you think this will keep me full enough for the V-diet?? Should I change any of the percentages?? Should I add any different types of protein??

Thanks in advance for your input.


#2

This guy doesn't reccomend it.

www.wannabebig.com/printarticle.php?articleid=121


#3

I read the article and this is what I take away:
-Have whey after a whole food meal.
-2-3 Hours later have a casein shake or another whole food meal.

What you're saying is - don't use whey with casein for my protein mix??

Metabolic Drive has the ingredients listed as:
1. Whey-protein isolate (milk)
2. Micellar casein (milk)
3. Milk-protein concentrate


#4

I don't know my elbow from my asshole when it comes to this issue. It is logical that they should be taken seperately considering that whey spikes protein levels right away and casein doesn't spike them at all.

The way I did the diet was to alternate whey and casein shakes. Every PWO shake contained whey however because I didn't use Surge.


#5

I don't think it was as much an issue of don't take one with the other, from what I understood, and have always understood to begin with, is that it's pointless taking them together if you want the protein to be absorbed quickly.

You'll still absorb the whey protein, but because you're digesting casein at the same time, you won't be getting it quickly like you would if you took only whey protein on an empty stomach.


#6

any and all calorie containing food will cause an insulin reaction. Hell milk causes a hell of a reaction and its a natural mix of whey and casein.


#7

But on the V-diet, the goal is NOT to absorb them quickly becuase you're eating infreqently. So, wouldn't mixing the whey with casein just slow down the whey??


#8

You're right and the other guy is wrong. The only time you wouldn't want to mix is PWO, when you want the type of whey that's in Surge (you know the fast absorbing type). At all other times having a mixture is the best way to go.

Some suggestions to save cash on the V-Diet is to have all of your shakes be 1/2 Metabolic Drive and 1/2 Whey. That way you are getting a steady dose of Metabolic Drive, but you save cash. I would not suggest you alternate whey/Metabolic Drive.


#9

Yeah I wouldn't be using 50/50 whey/casein ... I would only have 30% whey, the rest being calcium caseinate, micellular casein and milk protein isolate. My mic would likely have even more micelluar casein than MD, but we don't have the percentages so we won't know.


#10

You'll probably be fine then. Nothing left but to give it a try.


#11

To the OP - isolate is pretty much the same as concentrate, except it costs more.

Also a relevant question (to which I do not know the answer) would be - exactly how much casein do you need to have WITH your whey to slow down whey digestion to approx the same rate as the casein?

e.g. would a 1:10 mix of casein:whey slow down the whey digestion to a useful degree? i.e. to halt catabolism?

or would it be more like 50:50 or even 80:20?

I think this might be a useful idea, as whey is generally a lot cheaper than casein - and mixing the two may be just as effective as casein alone....


#12

Dave_ :
Thank you for your reply... I wonder the same thing, because as a penny pinching student I'd like to do the diet as close to its original form while saving some money. Anybody out there who'd happen to know how much casein would be needed to slow down the digestion of whey??


#13

I thought about this a bit (before I saw the thread) and I figured that a 50% whey concentrate with 50% micellar casien would be the best way to go. Use the 90cc scoops when you serve the protein, as the concentrate will bring down the % of protein down a bit (due to the extra fat and sugar from the milk).

Concentrate has the advantage of being cheaper, and has more "fractions" (the fancy parts of the protein that get lost when you isolate it.
Concentrate isn't as good because you get less protein per gram (just use more) and some people can't handle the lactose or don't want the extra sugar and fat.

Isolate may be a bit faster digesting, depending on the quality.


#14

Yet Dr. Stout recommends 50/50 whey casein as a PWO drink, I believe.
(BTW, I don't do this, its just another opinion.)


#15

OK, so I may use this then:
Micellular Casein 35%
Calcium Caseinate 30%
Whey Concentrate 35%

Yeah, I see your point, I don't really need 4 different types of protein... so I think the above mix should work out well for the V-Diet and even save myself some money. And remember, I'll be using Metabolic Drive for 3 out of the 5 daily shakes.


#16

That may be, but if it really was recommended by more than one guy casein would be in Surge.


#17

Yea. There is hydrolyzed casein, but it is probably one of the more expensive proteins that you can get. Supposedly it is 50% fast and 50% slow. And even more bitter than hydrolyzed whey. I've even seen "debitterised" hydrolyzed casein for only ... $64.99 a pound...


#18

I thought that I read that the micellar was just over 60%. Could be wrong. There is probably marginal difference though.

Out of interest, why did you decide to go for isolate over concentrate though?


#19

Only because isolate is the first ingredient in Metabolic Drive ... is it not worth it to get isolate over concentrate do you think??
The price would defintely go down with concentrate but I thought that isolate was a better protein... right/wrong?


#20

Anyone able to explain to me why a person who is intending on purchasing a blend of whey and casein would not simply purchase a Milk Protein Isolate?

4:1 ratio of Casein (supposedly in micellar form) to Whey, in an isolate.

Why would one even bother with a x% Whey, x% Casein, x% whatever custom blend?