T Nation

V-Diet Ended, Kickstart Given


#1

Hey guys

Sorry about this post -I've posted before and I just continue to get flamed - I hope this one can be a better thread and actually help me. Please can I say that Please can you help me here if your reading this thread? I want to keep it clutter free so please don't throw it off the rails - I'm really trying to be serious here.

Okay...

Well I'm off the V-Diet and I am more than happy with the results I have achieved. I am 5'4'' and stand around 162lbs. I'm far from the greatest body comp on here, but I am very happy compared to what it used to be (and hence this post!). My V-Diet log didn't get much attention, however probably due to lack of photos - I plan on posting the Before against the After, and I'm sure most will see the difference (well I can!) but I want more!!

In general I have always eat 'healthily' just perhaps the wrong type of healthily, i.e; too much carbs, too much quanitity etc - I'm not one for Sodas/Sweets/Take Away/Greasy fried food.

I would really like to find out how many calories I need to be consuming on non-training and training days - as well as what the best training plan for me is.

My goals are at present:
1) To remove body fat
2) To get a little bigger, leaner

I know (reading from many articles) that you can't in this case hit 'two birds with one stone' - so I am planning to tackle the number one first, which is to remove body fat. After reading articles I've read that I need to lift HEAVY, to "give the muscle a reason to stay there".

My only difficulty is finding the right training program for me. I'm not sure whether to do weights, or weights and cardio. Im more than fully prepared to go to any lengths, I am just in serious need of help right now.

So my problems are:
1) What weight training program?
2) (If) Cardio, what type of carido works best, running? bike? how long? intensity?

I've also read "No amount of training can out-train a poor diet", which I agree with of course, so I think I need changes made to my frequency and what is in my meals. (i.e; carbs/protein/fat)

As an idea thus far, based on my budget for a typical day I have come up with;

Breakfast = 3 Eggs (Scrambled) + 1 Toast
Snack = Fruit
Lunch = 3 Eggs + 1 Toast
Snack = Fruit
Dinner = 1 Chicken Breasts with Vegetables

How does that look? PLEASE no flaming, please give advice - just I cant afford to be purchasing big massive steaks etc, at the moment anyway (please dont say attempt when I've got more $$/££).

Any help put into this thread would be HUGELY appriciated, it really would. And I would be grateful for yourself in gigivng me information to transform my body.

Thanks,,
TNDude


#2

Isn’t the V-Diet supposed to get you super lean?

After pics would be handy; you may not need to cut, and people will be able to tell you now, before you waste your time trying to cut into a skeleton physique, whether or not that’s the case.

Some people eat more on training days, and less on non-training days. Others eat the same every day, with the argument: “rest days are for recovery, and rebuilding your muscles, why would you eat less?” As long as you’re eating an excess over the week, I don’t think it really matters at the end of the day. Personally, I’d just eat the same every day.

If you can’t find a program you like, design your own. Post it here, so people can tell you if there’s anything stupid about it.

I think you’re approaching these goals in the wrong order. Think about it. You work hard to cut off all this fat, then when it comes to bulking time you’re going to put some more on, and the psychological aspect of this - undoing your hard work - will probably affect your success.

You’re eating a ridiculously small amount (by the looks of it - how many calories is that total?).


#3

[quote]w00tage wrote:
Isn’t the V-Diet supposed to get you super lean?

After pics would be handy; you may not need to cut, and people will be able to tell you now, before you waste your time trying to cut into a skeleton physique, whether or not that’s the case.

Some people eat more on training days, and less on non-training days. Others eat the same every day, with the argument: “rest days are for recovery, and rebuilding your muscles, why would you eat less?” As long as you’re eating an excess over the week, I don’t think it really matters at the end of the day. Personally, I’d just eat the same every day.

If you can’t find a program you like, design your own. Post it here, so people can tell you if there’s anything stupid about it.

I think you’re approaching these goals in the wrong order. Think about it. You work hard to cut off all this fat, then when it comes to bulking time you’re going to put some more on, and the psychological aspect of this - undoing your hard work - will probably affect your success.

You’re eating a ridiculously small amount (by the looks of it - how many calories is that total?).[/quote]

Hey w00tage - thanks for the reply.

Yes it is for ‘big’ people, but I had quite a bit of fat that I couldn’t shed for some reason and the VDIET has got me through that barrier and it has come off (as well as inches).

I’m using the VDIET as a starting point in my fat burning process.

My ideal body is to get the V-shape – you know wider shoulders than the waist, with a chiseled chest and sizeable arms.

I don’t mind the training program I have to do, as long as I have one to stick to - I’m willing to go onto any program if people suggest that it is the best for me.

In terms of goals at the moment I want to carry on loosing the fat an inches by eating healthily (caloriy deflict) but also retain muscle (at least) - whether that involve cardio or not???

In terms of eating, that was what I was suggesting to eat - only reaon to keep carbs down but protein high? Again I’d like feedback on that, I dont want to be ‘thinking I know what is good’ then trying to train in the gym - when infact the diet is outweighing the training thus rendering useless.

I’ll get some pics up of my current state tommorow to help you guys help me if thats cool.

Thanks
TNDude


#4

Well, diet is certainly the most important thing in fat loss. I’ve not yet looked into losing fat, and what is needed for that, so I can’t help much I’m afraid. One thing I learnt the other week though is

Weightlifting uses glycogen for energy
Cardio uses glycogen and fat for energy

That’s why I mentioned it’s a good idea to do weight lifting first, because your glycogen stores will be depleted, and so your body will use fat as energy .

There are tons of articles on nutrition around the site. I can’t be sure, but it doesn’t sound like you’ve read them yet. Go through, read a whole bunch, takes notes and stuff. Then you should be able to plan out a better diet. Keeping a log is important too, so be prepared to do that.

My prediction is a lot of people will recommend Starting Strength to you, and a guy called Dissonance actually made a pretty good weight loss transformation using that. Personally, I would just do a basic split; it’s much easier to fit around your schedule.

There are also lots of articles on retaining lean mass on a cut, read those too. Try not to overcomplicate things though. Remember, articles would be a bit boring if the authors just said “Well, actually, I don’t have any special or magic exercises for you to do. Basic stuff works.”


#5

Trial and error. Go to an online calculator. Eat the amount of calories they tell you for a week and see if the scale goes up, down or stays the same. If it stays the same lower you calories intake by 500 calories per day or so. Eat 1-1.5g of protein per pound of body weight. Eat carbs in the AM and Post-Workout.


#6
I would actually recommend Starting Strength to you.  However, the goal of the program is to put on mass, and the only way to do that is to eat in excess of what your burning, while trying to use that energy to build as much muscle as possible.  That, however, is counter-intuitive to your goals, which is to lose fat in a catabolic state, while retaining muscle.  Congrats on a successful V-Diet by the way, its not the easiest plan to stick with.

 I did Starting Strength, milked it for all its worth, and moved on to a 5x5 intermediate program.  I then realized that I wanted to shed some body fat while retaining the muscle I had gained (went from 165 -> 185).  I knew some muscle loss was to be expected, but I really needed to do this for myself.  So what I'm trying to say is, I know where your coming from.

 If your goal is to burn fat, then you need to expend more energy, which is why its suggested to do whole body workouts and compound lifts (aka Squats, Deadlifts, Bench Press, Olympic lifts if you can get the form down properly).  These are the exact same lifts I used while I was on SS...quite interesting.  It takes more energy to do whole body lifts, which burns more calories, allowing you to be more in a caloric deficit mode at the end of the day.  

 So my suggestion to you is start doing some compound lifts (3x a week), but don't expect that much gain from it (since your not focusing on mass gain).  Do it more so to expend more energy.  woot is right, if you want to do cardio, do it after you lift (or even on your off days (ex. lift MWF, HIIT on TTh).  Oh yea, look into HIIT as well.  Nutrient timing is important.  Try avoiding carbs after 6-7, and eat more nutrient dense and low-glycemic carbs (oatmeal, vegetables, beans) along with lean protein sources.  Fish oil supplementation is always great.  BCAA's have been proven effective at retaining muscle mass on a fat loss program as well, but don't know this first-hand yet.

 Another suggestion given to me was that when eating meals, do carbs + protein, or protein + fat, but never carbs + fat (unless its in a very miniscule amount).  Seems to be effective.  If I think of anything else, Ill let you know.  Good luck!

#7

Hey guys

Pic attatched of me with before and after. Comments welcome on that.

Ive began to use an online food journal and tracking what I eat.

I went on another site and I’m thinking of going on this plan… any ideas/feedback???

Workout A:
* Bench Press: 2 sets of 8 reps, 2 minutes rest between sets
* Squat: 3 sets of 8 reps, 2 minutes rest between sets
* Bent Over Row: 3 sets of 8 reps, 2 minutes rest between sets
* Dumbbell Lunges: 3 sets of 10 reps, 2 minutes rest between sets
* Shoulder Press: 3 sets of 10 reps, 2 minutes rest between sets
* Bicep Curls: 2 sets of 12 reps, 1 minute rest between sets
* Triceps Extensions: 2 sets of 12 reps, 1 minute rest between sets
* Hanging Leg Raises: 2-3 sets of 15 reps, 1 minute rest between sets

Workout B:
* Incline Bench Press: 2 sets of 8 reps, 2 minutes rest between sets
* Leg Press: 3 sets of 8 reps, 2 minutes rest between sets
* Lat Pulldown: 3 sets of 8 reps, 2 minutes rest between sets
* Leg Extensions: 2 sets of 10 reps, 1 minutes rest between sets
* Hamstring Curls: 2 sets of 10 reps, 1 minutes rest between sets
* Lateral Raises: 2 sets of 10 reps, 1 minute rest between sets
* Calf Raises: 2 sets of 10-12 reps, 1 minute rest between sets
* Exercise Ball Crunches: 3 sets of 15 reps, 30 seconds rest between sets

Doing it like A-B-A one week, B-A-B the next week etc

Also implementing 30 minutes of cardio, which my choice is the bike for 30 minutes medium intensity.

Also focusing on;
Whole Grains
Potatoes
Oatmeal
Fruits
Veg
Meat
Nuts
Low Fat Fairy
Flaxseeds
Fish?

I need to find a way of calulcating my need of calories aswell, this online thing says 2500 - which I think is too much. Just for some more info I am 18!

Thanks, I look forward to your replies guys.


#8

You’ve definitely improved a hell of a lot, well done! Not to sound harsh, but if I were you I would actually keep cutting - as you plan to.

Can’t say I’m crazy about the routine. Best wait for some more experienced guys to help you out though.

Good luck.


#9

Like I said before. I would try the 2500 calories for a week and see where the scale goes. As far as the food choices, cut out most of the starches. Eat mostly veggies, fruits, and lean meats.

Training should be simple. Squats, dead-lifts, presses 3 times per week. Some treadmill walking after your training if you want and Intervals on off days.


#10

Personally, I don’t think you should be eating fruits. The small benefits they have does not outweigh the large amounts of sugar most fruits have.

Stick to protein, vegetables, and good fats.

Also, how could you afford to do the V-Diet but you can’t afford food to eat? I spent quiet a bit of money on the V-Diet.


#11

[quot]DOHCrazy wrote:
Personally, I don’t think you should be eating fruits. The small benefits they have does not outweigh the large amounts of sugar most fruits have.

Stick to protein, vegetables, and good fats.

Also, how could you afford to do the V-Diet but you can’t afford food to eat? I spent quiet a bit of money on the V-Diet. [/quote]

Like filling you up with little calories? seriously at this stage of the game there is NO reason why he shouldn’t eat fruits. As long as his calories are bellow maintenance and he’s eating enough protein he will lose fat.


#12

Awesome guys thanks for the replies and comments!

I have attatched an image of what I ate today… not enough?! I feel full at the moment though - its hard to ramp up calories with healthy stuff (not that I ramped them up with junk pre-vdiet).

Is the mixture of Carb/Protein/Fat ok or is there too much, or too little?? Worried about the Carbs though and I didn’t think I ate that much really? It was that damn Cous Cous ramped that up… 66Grams!!

I my plan today went;

Breakfast: 2 Wholeweat slices of toast
Snack: Apple
Lunch: Pitta bread with can of tuna
Snack: Snack Jacks ‘Low Fat’
Dinner: Chicken in tomato sauce with bowl of salad with cous cous

[quote]DOHCrazy wrote:
Also, how could you afford to do the V-Diet but you can’t afford food to eat? I spent quiet a bit of money on the V-Diet. [/quote]

Well I saved up for the V-Diet, because I considered it to be my kickstart to healthy, new, lean me. I can’t afford to be ‘pumping’ money out like that - it took me a while to save, but I have to survive w/ clothes etc lol.


#13

Thats your diet??
enjoy the fat…


#14

So 5 grams of saturated and 6 of Monosaturated and 6 of Polysaturated is bad??? I thought they were healthy fats? Thats not a lot of fat – not being rude but did you look at the breakdown? :S

Anyone else got any input ??


#15

I think he is talking about your carbs in proportion to your protein intake which when losing weight and lifting you should lower carbs and replace with protein.

ORR he could be referring your low amount of calories which could(and usually) makes it harder for people to lose weight. When most people are better off losing weight with eating at least 1800 calories.


#16

Decrease the carb intake and increase the amount of protein. Most of the carbs should be taken around workouts and in the morning for non-workout days.


#17

[quote]TNDude wrote:
So 5 grams of saturated and 6 of Monosaturated and 6 of Polysaturated is bad??? I thought they were healthy fats? Thats not a lot of fat – not being rude but did you look at the breakdown? :S

Anyone else got any input ??[/quote]

he is talking abou tthe fact that you consider 1 apple to be a meal. or 2 wholeweat pieces of bread as your entire breakfast?

You are at the position where you can make some serious eye popping progress if you eat a bunch of proteing, healthy carbs and fats and train your ass off with heavy weights. you are a beginner. stop worrying about the exact grams of fats in your diet or whether they are ‘poly’ or ‘mono’.

this is what you should do for each meal:
Eat:

  1. 30-50g protein
  2. vegetables and some carbs to fill you up.

The protein is building blocks of muscle. emphasise each meal on getting your protein in and then filling the rest of the belly with vegetables and carbs.
getting enough protein on a budget is easy… eggs, milk, cheap cuts of meat, tuna, fish, etc.

Meal Example:
Protein: 2 chicken thighs
Vegetables: vegetable sit fry of onions, carrots, broccoli, green peppers.
Carbs: 2 roasted potatoes.

you need to eat a lot more than you are eating now. i presonally think ‘cutting’ would be horrible for you right now. you need enough protein and calories from healthy foods in order to build muscle and boost your metabolism which will burn the fat. at your stage you can burn fat and gain muscle at the same time. just eat enough food to get stronger in the gym, and make it healthy foods.

Train your ass off with heavy weights. Here’s a good routine for bodybuilding:

Monday chest+triceps
bench press
db incline bench press
dips
pushdowns

Tuesday back+biceps
deadlifts
pulups/pulldowns
db rows
barbell bicep curl

Thursday legs
squats
leg curls
leg press
calf raises

Friday shoulders
shoulder press bar or db
lateral raises
rear raises
shrugs

3 sets on everything. work hard and make sure to add more weight or do more reps on each exercise every workout.

good luck and may the force be with you.

OH----
add some cardio on your off days. go for a brisk walk for 30min for example. it will help burn the fat and keep you healthy.


#18

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:

[quote]DOHCrazy wrote:
Personally, I don’t think you should be eating fruits. The small benefits they have does not outweigh the large amounts of sugar most fruits have.

Stick to protein, vegetables, and good fats.

Also, how could you afford to do the V-Diet but you can’t afford food to eat? I spent quiet a bit of money on the V-Diet.[/quote]

Like filling you up with little calories? seriously at this stage of the game there is NO reason why he shouldn’t eat fruits. As long as his calories are bellow maintenance and he’s eating enough protein he will lose fat.[/quote]

Regardless of how little calories he’s eating, why would he need to get them from fruit (which are mostly sugar.)

Why not ‘spend’ those calorie allowances on items such as protein, vegetables, and healthy fats, as I stated before.

He has now posted his diet, and is getting too many carbs compared to his protein and fat intake.

Im anxious to see your reasoning for telling him to continue to eat fruits.


#19

[quote]DOHCrazy wrote:
ronaldo7 wrote:
DOHCrazy wrote:
Personally, I don’t think you should be eating fruits. The small benefits they have does not outweigh the large amounts of sugar most fruits have.

Stick to protein, vegetables, and good fats.

Also, how could you afford to do the V-Diet but you can’t afford food to eat? I spent quiet a bit of money on the V-Diet.

Like filling you up with little calories? seriously at this stage of the game there is NO reason why he shouldn’t eat fruits. As long as his calories are bellow maintenance and he’s eating enough protein he will lose fat.

Regardless of how little calories he’s eating, why would he need to get them from fruit (which are mostly sugar.)

Why not ‘spend’ those calorie allowances on items such as protein, vegetables, and healthy fats, as I stated before.

He has now posted his diet, and is getting too many carbs compared to his protein and fat intake.

Im anxious to see your reasoning for telling him to continue to eat fruits.

[/quote]
If he was to eat fruit, vegetables and lean meats he wouldn’t go over 150g of carbs per day…even less. Fruits keep you full and they are easy to take anywhere with a piece of chicken or beef jerky. Seriously unless someone is about to go into a show or some sort of competition where you need to be ripped, fruit should NOT be an issue.


#20

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
DOHCrazy wrote:
ronaldo7 wrote:
DOHCrazy wrote:
Personally, I don’t think you should be eating fruits. The small benefits they have does not outweigh the large amounts of sugar most fruits have.

Stick to protein, vegetables, and good fats.

Also, how could you afford to do the V-Diet but you can’t afford food to eat? I spent quiet a bit of money on the V-Diet.

Like filling you up with little calories? seriously at this stage of the game there is NO reason why he shouldn’t eat fruits. As long as his calories are bellow maintenance and he’s eating enough protein he will lose fat.

Regardless of how little calories he’s eating, why would he need to get them from fruit (which are mostly sugar.)

Why not ‘spend’ those calorie allowances on items such as protein, vegetables, and healthy fats, as I stated before.

He has now posted his diet, and is getting too many carbs compared to his protein and fat intake.

Im anxious to see your reasoning for telling him to continue to eat fruits.

If he was to eat fruit, vegetables and lean meats he wouldn’t go over 150g of carbs per day…even less. Fruits keep you full and they are easy to take anywhere with a piece of chicken or beef jerky. Seriously unless someone is about to go into a show or some sort of competition where you need to be ripped, fruit should NOT be an issue.
[/quote]

Well, I guess he can take advice from the 165 pounder who can probably eat whatever he likes, or he can take advice from someone who has had to lose weight, has put on muscle, and still has to be conscious of what he eats.

The choice is for the OP to make.