T Nation

Utah's Loss; America's Gain


#1

President Obama has elected Jon Huntsman, Jr. Ambassador to China.

Just some thoughts:

1) First off, I'll call "bullshit" right from the start for those who are thinking that it was somehow a "political" move to "eliminate" a viable GOP candidate for President from the pool.

The Far Religious Right of the GOP has made it clear that a Mormon will never, ever get their support and therefore would never get the GOP nod for President.

While Huntsman has the millions to spend (waste? in a futile cause?) that Romney has; I think Huntsman is pragmatic enough to realize that the "Huckabee Wing", at this point, has the greatest influence on the Party.

2) This man is pragmatic (like the Chinese); a businessman (yes...his Company is in China, but business and trade savvy is what the U.S. needs when dealing with China); is fluent in Mandarin Chinese; and is a problem solver.

Again...Utah's Loss; America's Gain...

Thoughts?

Mufasa


#2

from what i’ve read, seems like the right man for the job


#3

Anyone who can get changes in archaic laws and maneuver the political mind field of perhaps the most Conservative State in the Union is probably the man we want dealing with the Chinese.

From the couple of speeches I’ve read, and listening to his acceptance…he seems to take the “…Look…this is in your best interest…” approach.

The Chinese will respond to that.

Mufasa


#4

having to do some research on this guy . . . honestly don’t know much about him . . .but then again, Utah is kind of a easy to forget about place . . .lol


#5

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
having to do some research on this guy . . . honestly don’t know much about him . . .but then again, Utah is kind of a easy to forget about place . . .lol[/quote]

Don’t worry, IS…

If there is something on Huntsman (besides being Mormon)…the Right will assuredly go Ape Shit about it.

Mufasa


#6

oohh - so we on the right don’t approach issues rationally or abide by principles . . .ok - thanks for the reminder, I’ll be sure to behave that way now . . .


#7

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
oohh - so we on the right don’t approach issues rationally or abide by principles . . .ok - thanks for the reminder, I’ll be sure to behave that way now . . .[/quote]

When it comes to a choice made by the President?

You tell me.

Mufasa


#8

By the way…

There are irrational and unprincipled people from one end of the Political Spectrum to the other.

Mufasa


#9

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

  1. First off, I’ll call “bullshit” right from the start for those who are thinking that it was somehow a “political” move to “eliminate” a viable GOP candidate for President from the pool.

The Far Religious Right of the GOP has made it clear that a Mormon will never, ever get their support and therefore would never get the GOP nod for President.

While Huntsman has the millions to spend (waste? in a futile cause?) that Romney has; I think Huntsman is pragmatic enough to realize that the “Huckabee Wing”, at this point, has the greatest influence on the Party.

[/quote]

Could you expand on this? I thought that despite Romeny’s “plastic” nature and “flip flopping” about a variety of social issues (abortion), he almost won.

Is this why Huckabee stayed in the race until the end?


#10

GL:

Almost from the beginning of his run for Office, Romney was opposed by Fundamentalist Christians.

Not only was it preached in the Pulpit…near the end of the election, there actually was a Fundamentalist Conference where opposition to Romney was reiterated…and it was all because of his Religious beliefs.

When he knew that his campaign was almost surely over, Romney gave a moving speech on Religious Freedom and Tolerance.

I’ll see if I can find it and link it.

His “flip-flopping” was perhaps an issue for the more moderate wings of the GOP…but that is not what lost him the party nomination. That’s a fact that I’m sure Huntsman understands very well.

Mufasa


#11

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
GL:

Almost from the beginning of his run for Office, Romney was opposed by Fundamentalist Christians.

Not only was it preached in the Pulpit…near the end of the election, there actually was a Fundamentalist Conference where opposition to Romney was reiterated…and it was all because of his Religious beliefs.

When he knew that his campaign was almost surely over, Romney gave a moving speech on Religious Freedom and Tolerance.

I’ll see if I can find it and link it.

His “flip-flopping” was perhaps an issue for the more moderate wings of the GOP…but that is not what lost him the party nomination. That’s a fact that I’m sure Huntsman understands very well.

Mufasa

[/quote]

Agree with some of this. His speech on religious tolerance, like his whole campaign, was a transparent fraud. He wanted to have his cake and eat it too: he basically said that we shouldn’t judge each others religions, that that was a private matter, but then wanted to be clear that his Mormon faith shares the “values” of orthodox Christians. You can’t have it both ways.


#12

The main point I was making is that I just don’t see Huntsman dumping millions into a campaign where he will just run into the same type of roadblocks.

The GOP seems, as of 2009, to be going more the direction of Jindal, Palin and Huckabee, while someone as qualified as Huntsman probably is not even a viable consideration.

Mufasa


#13

Interesting. It’s too bad then. I thought GOP opposition was more because of his “plastic” nature. But if they have a “religious” litmus test, I guess so be it. They’ll be out in the wilderness a few more years then. 'Course this will be bad for the country, but I don’t know how to change it.


#14

I don’t think it is something we can, or should, change, GL.

Our right to vote is our right to vote, prejudices and all.

I know that when I vote, there are a lot of things running through my mind as I cast that vote… some good and some not-so-good.

Religion happens to be a litmus test for many people.

Good or bad, there is no question in my mind whatsoever that its their right.

So we move on.

Mufasa


#15

I happen to know quite a bit about the Mormon religion and regard it as fantasy on a level rivaled maybe only by Disney. That said, the LDS church is monumentally patriotic, politically fairly solid and Romney’s Mormonism had nothing to do with my opposition.

His goofball economics, such as supporting public health care was. On a political level MormonISM or consistent Mormon devotees present nothing to fear for conservatives and Christians who would prefer Obama over a solid conservative who is also a Mormon are severely misguided.


#16

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I happen to know quite a bit about the Mormon religion and regard it as fantasy on a level rivaled maybe only by Disney. That said, the LDS church is monumentally patriotic, politically fairly solid and Romney’s Mormonism had nothing to do with my opposition.

His goofball economics, such as supporting public health care was. On a political level MormonISM or consistent Mormon devotees present nothing to fear for conservatives and Christians who would prefer Obama over a solid conservative who is also a Mormon are severely misguided.[/quote]

Tiribulus;

Just one sample among MANY that Romney faced, many while attempting to speak on the Campaign Trail:

You must not hang out with many Evangelicals and other Fundamentalist Christians if you thought he was rejected because of goofball economics or mere flip-flopping.

It went way deeper than that.

Mufasa


#17

Trust me he is an excellent governor. He has fought with the state legislature and won (the most conservative in the nation) on a lot of issues.

This guy is a smooth operator and for the folks that say you cannot elect a Mormon president…there was a time when you COULD NOT elect a Catholic president and COUND NOT elect a man of color president.

I am a middle of the road Republican in a far right state…and I think Huntsman is the best thing that happened to Utah.

He will the nom in 12 or 16 just wait.


#18

UL:

(“Slick Operator” in a positive way, I hope?)

I’m not as close to Utah politics as you are…but I’m told that it can be a minefield…and Huntsman was able to get laws changed (and even taken off the books?) with a pragmatic (sorry…that’s the only way to describe it…)…“This is in your best interest…” approach.

About the GOP nod for President?

Ummmm…

I think that it will all boil down to how the GOP wishes to define itself. They certainly don’t have to become “Dems in Sheeps Clothing” to do so…but as long as they are the Party of the Fundamentalist Right…I don’t think that a person even as qualified as Huntsman has a chance.

Mufasa


#19

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
I happen to know quite a bit about the Mormon religion and regard it as fantasy on a level rivaled maybe only by Disney. That said, the LDS church is monumentally patriotic, politically fairly solid and Romney’s Mormonism had nothing to do with my opposition.

His goofball economics, such as supporting public health care was. On a political level MormonISM or consistent Mormon devotees present nothing to fear for conservatives and Christians who would prefer Obama over a solid conservative who is also a Mormon are severely misguided.

Tiribulus;

Just one sample among MANY that Romney faced, many while attempting to speak on the Campaign Trail:

You must not hang out with many Evangelicals and other Fundamentalist Christians if you thought he was rejected because of goofball economics or mere flip-flopping.

It went way deeper than that.

Mufasa
[/quote]

Speaking only for myself.

Politically speaking, the LDS church presents nothing to dissuade me from voting for someone on that basis alone, especially given the alternatives these days. I would’ve voted for Romney over Obama without hesitation. Obama’s alleged Christian church was nothing more than a marxist outpost wrapped in neo Christian terminology. I did quite a bit of reading on the liberation theology that came out of central America during the 60’s years ago. It bears no substantive resemblance to the historic Christian religion.

Neither does Mormonism, but knowledgeable committed Mormons do love this country and are light years closer to actually constitutional politics than Wright’s America hating crap.