T Nation

Using PCT Meds to Correct Hormonal Imbalance


#1

Hi All,

I’m not a body builder but started using PCT meds 45 days ago to try to fix my long standing hormonal issues and I’d like to ask you for your opinion/help based on my situation. My very simple goal is to have morning wood and sex drive again.

I have done my homework regarding research about meds but I think I could still use some help to tweak my dosages between measurements. Fortunately I can afford buying pharma grade stuff and to do private lab tests about every 6 weeks.

I took PCT meds for about 45 days (below you can find blood test before and after):

  • First 24 days: 50mg Clomid ED, 20mg Nolva ED, 12.5mg Aromasin EOD
  • After 24 days: 25mg Clomid ED, 20mg Nolva ED, 12.5mg Aromasin EOD
  • Future plan based on latest blood test: 25mg Clomid ED, 10mg Nolva ED, 12.5mg Aromasin ED

I looked like this 45 days ago before starting taking meds:
TSH 4.815 mIU/L * (0.400 - 4.000)
Free T4 11.08 pmol/L (7.75 - 15.21)
Free T3 6.32 pmol/L * (3.80 - 6.00)
LH 6.09 U/L (1.24 - 8.20)
FSH 4.72 U/L (1.27 - 19.26)
Prolactin 209.1 mIU/L (98.0 - 456.0)
E2 215.7 pmol/L * (0 - 172.5)
Progesteron 4.6 nmol/L (0.5 - 6.6)
T 21.3 nmol/L (6.1 - 27.1)
Free T Index 31.5 % (24.3 - 110.2)
SHBG 67.50 nmol/L (13.30 - 89.50)
DHEA-S 7.53 μmol/L (2.88 - 12.59)

After 45 days on PCT meds (latest/recent test):
TSH 5.711 mIU/L * (0.400 - 4.000)
Free T4 11.98 pmol/L (7.75 - 15.21)
Free T3 6.85 pmol/L * (3.80 - 6.00)
LH 19.25 U/L * (1.24 - 8.20)
FSH 10.63 U/L (1.27 - 19.26)
Prolactin 313.7 mIU/L * (56.0 - 278.4)
E2 193.3 pmol/L * (0.0 - 172.5)
Progesteron 3.5 nmol/L (0.5 - 6.6)
T 30.0 nmol/L * (6.1 - 27.1)
Free T Index 63.5 % (24.3 - 110.2)
SHBG 47.30 nmol/L (13.30 - 89.50)
Albumin 46.5 g/L (35.0 - 52.0)
DHEA-S 8.10 μmol/L (2.88 - 12.59)
GOT 20 U/L (0 - 50)
GPT 22 U/L (0 - 50)
ALP 48 U/L (30 - 120)
Total Bilirubin 14.2 μmol/L (5.0 - 21.0)
Direct Bilirubin 3.1 μmol/L (0.0 - 5.0)
D3 vitamin 61.4 nmol/L * (75.0 - 250.0)
B12 vitamin 1078.0 pmol/L * (133.0 - 675.0)

I read about Proviron and since it seemed to be very safe and has a lot of good properties I bought a few packs and experimented with it in the first 30 days by trying to take it every evening, every morning+evening to see if it makes a difference. TBH I don’t know whether it can benefit me by stacking it with my regime but I think it could be useful in fighting my high SHBG.

I mixed Clomid and Nolva to minimise my chances of getting Clomid side effects (e.g. vision issues). Clomid 50mg ED doesn’t cause any problems for me.

My questions are:

  1. What regime do you recommend? (different dosage, different meds)
  2. Could I benefit from HCG in some way?
  3. Should I try to control Prolactin (e.g. Caber) or just see how my E2 and SHBG respond to more Aromasin before dealing with PRL?
  4. How long can I run a PCT without damaging myself? I’ve read about hypogonadal people taking low-dose Clomid (25mg ED) for half/full year. If I have to stop regularly then how long PCTs can I have and how large gap do I have to leave between them?

#2

New blood test taken today morning:

TSH 7.434 mIU/L * (0.400 - 4.000)
Free T4 12.15 pmol/L (7.75 - 15.21)
Free T3 7.08 pmol/L * (3.80 - 6.00)
LH 17.95 U/L * (1.24 - 8.20)
FSH 11.37 U/L (1.27 - 19.26)
Prolactin 278.8 mIU/L * (56.0 - 278.4)
E2 191.7 pmol/L * (0.0 - 172.5)
Progesteron 3.8 nmol/L (0.5 - 6.6)
T 29.8 nmol/L * (6.1 - 27.1)
Free T Index 67.3 % (24.3 - 110.2)
SHBG 44.20 nmol/L (13.30 - 89.50)
Albumin 47.5 g/L (35.0 - 52.0)
DHEA-S 10.31 μmol/L (2.88 - 12.59)
GOT 19 U/L (0 - 50)
GPT 18 U/L (0 - 50)
ALP 51 U/L (30 - 120)
Total Bilirubin 10.0 μmol/L (5.0 - 21.0)
Direct Bilirubin 2.2 μmol/L (0.0 - 5.0)
D3 vitamin 143.0 nmol/L (75.0 - 250.0)

E2 is almost unchanged despite ramping up my aromasin (pharma grade, pfizer) dose to 2 x 25mg per day (25mg morning, 25mg evening) and being on it for almost 3 weeks.

I have average body and don’t have a lot of fat but I’ll change my diet as an attempt to lose what I have.
As a next step I’m going to slowly come off of SERMs and see what happens in 1-2 months later.


#3

Dood see an endo about your thyroid! Your hypothyroidism should be a concern. Correcting this issue (bringing TSH closer to 1.0) will likely help your hormone levels post PCT.


#4

grungephreak is correct

I have had these sides since i was 16 around 20 i decided to see an edo when he tested me i was at 60 ng/dl for 20 years old !! he put me on TRT and been fine ever since, there are options besides injections such as gels however they aromatise a lot more than injections.

Fact is, go see an Endo or find a trt specialized doctor.

The last thing you would want to do is self-treat, your bodies hormones are sensitive and you will need a specialist that can help you and improve your life properly.

The costs for TRT for me are 80$ monthly (without insurance and includes AI) its very cheap so dont be afraid to get a checkup, this is something that will change your life and you will feel much better after!


#5

Thanks for the replies.

I would jump to TRT only as a last resort.

On some other forums I’ve read about guys who could be fixed with 6-12 months long clomid therapy or temporary high dose TRT - that’s why I want to try PCT and overdriving my T a bit.

Without medications both my T and thyroid hormones are usually fine, the only problem is high E2, PRL and SHBG (see the first blood test) and the resulting low free T (always at the lower limit). This state is orders of magnitude better than 5 years ago when I had about T=10, LH and FSH around zero, E2 2 x the upper limit, PRL 3 x the upper limit, TSH, T3 and T4 were random (sometimes very low, sometimes very high), etc… Couldn’t sleep - this was the worst of the symptoms. I visited dozens of endocrinologists who usually put me on a very simple regime like bromocriptine, HCG or short term TRT. All of them failed, sometimes made things worse (TRT) and they had no clue what to do. It was a huge waste of time and money.

The only thing I could use to significantly improve my health and wellbeing was a few long fasts but those are difficult to fit into my life because of work. They lowered my E2, PRL and significantly improved my T and everything else (LH, FSH, thyroid, etc…). I could sleep again (by far the best improvement). Unfortunately in my experience I’m much better at treating myself than endocrinologists. Today my only problem is very low sex drive (probably because of the high SHBG and minimal free T).

PCT seems to play with my thyroids but at the same time it improved things that have been constantly out of whack for more than 5 years: I had uncorrectable D3 deficiency regardless of how many ten thousands of IU I took daily. SHBG was always above 60 or 70, free T was always near the lower limit and DHEA was always 6 or 7. All of these improved and I walk around with goose-bumpy hard balls all day which feels great. :slight_smile:

Another thing I had in the last 5+ years was BPH like symptoms - weaker stream of piss (60-80% of the original perfect state). It improved a lot in the last few years but the weird thing about this is that it can change significantly with a short period of time (1 day) from perfect to very bad or vice versa. The only thing that can trigger a worst case scenario (which is very weak painful stream) is going to the cinema and consuming 1L pepsi with a big popcorn within a short period of time. These symptoms completely disappeared a few days after starting SERMs. I was in the cinema a few days ago and could piss perfectly after 1L pepsi and a big popcorn.

I will try to minimise my body fat and run PCT sessions with 1-2 month gaps between them. Now that I’ve pushed the limits and tried different doses of SERMs (100mg clomid + 20mg nolva per day) and AIs (2 x 25mg per day) I have a bit better idea about the tipping points and their effects on my body.