T Nation

Using Only 50mg Test 2x/Week


#1

I went to the doctor today and got new test results. If someone would please scan over them and let me know what you think I would be very appreciative.

Not all labs were taken the first time like I would have liked. I have slowly learned what to ask my doctor for as I read on this site and learn from people like Ksman. My Doctor is also learning and open for suggestions.

I listed all labs taken I thought that might be relevant. All other labs Cholesterol, sodium etc... were in normal range except the ones listed below.

My starting labs were:

06/01/09
Total Test 288.58
E2 Estradiol 42.6
Free Test N/A
% Free Test N/A
SHBG N/A
LH 7.2
FSH 11.7

BUN 23 (6 - 23)
LDL 126

I originally mentioned Test+AI+HCG to my doctor. He seemed unsure so I didn't press. We mutually agreed to try testosterone alone for two months. I told him I wanted to self inject 50mg (Watsons Test 200mg/ml) 2x/wk (100mg/wk total). I used a 29g 1/2 needle and injected into my upper outer thighs on Sun. and Thur mornings for approx two months.

My NEW results are:

08/28/09
Total Test 239.12 ??????
E2 Estradiol 9.3 ??????
Free Test 61.1 (47 - 244)
% Free Test 2.6 (1.6 - 2.9)
SHBG 19 (13-71)
LH N/A
FSH N/A

BUN 24 (6 - 23)
LDL 136

When he came in the room he said Wow! and had thought he gave me Arimidex. As he glanced down at his computer he said "I didn't give you an AI did I!!". I told him nope. He said to up my test dose to 70mg 2x/wk. I was playing around with some equations and I am assuming 70 will put me around 300+ at this rate.

I asked about HCG (since it will increase Test and E2) and gave him facts about testes shutting down, stopping Pregnenolone production etc... He agreed but he said he was having a hard time finding somewhere to buy HCG. He said he would get back with me in a few days hopefully with a place to get it. Evidently it's not common in pharmacy's?? He said he would start me at 250iu EOD as suggested on here.

Any suggestions would very much be appreciated, especially how my E2 got so low? and my test didn't go anywhere??

I also didn't take any supplements over the last two months. As close to a supplement as I took was ON Whey natural as part of my morning breakfast shake.

Thanks,
r1013


#2

Hay r1013

I was wondering hou you made out. I kind of in the same place as you. Just got on the 100mg/week test shots and been using an AI that I purchased from a resurch chemical source. I’ll be getting tested again in a couple of weeks. I’m also looking for a source for hCG but have not got my doctor to perscribe it yet. It appears that you can purchase in on line from a canadian phamacy, may not even need a perscription. Let me know how you make out. I’ve noticed a big difference since I’ve been on the shot twice a week and the AI. I’ll be very interested to know where my level are. How long after your last shot did you have your blood draw.


#3

I’m not sure my insurance would cover something from Canada. I can always check on it and if it works out, let my doctor know. It took several weeks just to get the Testosterone approved, which apparently has to be re-approved every year. I bet the same will happen with HGC.

My doctor asked me to inject for approx two months (I think at 5 weeks it should be pretty stable though??) and then to wait one week after my last shot before having labs done. I injected 50mg on a Thursday morning and had my blood drawn the following Thursday. I of course skipped my Sunday shot. I actually think this puts me on the low side as far as labs go. Not low enough that it would be 239!! It just should be a a little lower than I normally am through the week. I guess that’s better than showing to high.

Last year on 200mg every two weeks, I felt a big difference in energy! It did nothing for my sex drive. The energy wouldn’t last though. It was gone quickly and I felt as bad as ever. This time I have noticed no difference whatsoever.


#4

[quote]r1013 wrote:
I injected 50mg on a Thursday morning and had my blood drawn the following Thursday. I of course skipped my Sunday shot. [/quote]

There’s your answer. You skipped a dose.

Your first post made no sense because you withheld this information. Your doc is probably scratching his head, too, until he figures out you are gaming him. That is about the only explanation for the low testosterone. When he comes to that conclusion, as he will, it will poison your relationship with him. Your saving grace is the low E2, which might throw him off the trail.

On the bright side, you have learned something about the pharmacokinetics of esterified testosterone. Lesson: fifty milligrams is mostly gone in a week.

Since your testes are not producing much, if any, native testosterone because of HPTA suppression, they can’t pick up the slack when you skip a dose.

I can’t explain your low E2 on the second lab. Lab error is always a possibility. Unless you have been sneaking some aromatase inhibitor…


#5

Yes there was a skipped dose. Sunday and Mondays are my dose days. I injected on a Thursday (skipped Sunday) and was tested on the following Thursday. This is exactly what he asked me to do. He stated twice in his office to make sure my last dose was seven days prior to lab test.

This is exactly what he did Fall 2008. I got a 200mg shot every two weeks. I got my last shot on a Thursday and he had my labs drawn the following Thursday. My Total Test was 965.71.

How can my natural test be in the 200’s

I take 50mg and 7 days later it’s still in the 200’s.
I take 200mg and 7 days later it’s in the 900’s.

No one is gaming anyone?? I did as I was asked.


#6

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#7

[quote]r1013 wrote:

How can my natural test be in the 200’s

Hypogonadism, the reason for going on TRT. Why do you have hypogonadism? Not enough data for conjecture. Answering that question should be part of your medical work-up. What is your age?

I take 50mg and 7 days later it’s still in the 200’s.
I take 200mg and 7 days later it’s in the 900’s.

I think these are expected results.

No one is gaming anyone?? I did as I was asked.[/quote

Sorry, I missed that bit of data. My apologies.


#8

No problem. I’m sure there are people out to get bodybuilding doses. I just want to be normal. I lost one wife to low libido and maybe a second… I’m working on that one. Also I am not now, nor will I ever try and mislead my doctor. I have given him printouts from Crisler, Ksman, and a few other items on HCG and Estradiol from this site and he always acts very appreciative. I think he can tell I’m not trying to pull the wool over his eyes.

I also put in my doses in the roid calculator. I copied it to an excel document and added dates etc… I used it as a log to keep track so I didn’t miss any doses. I’m very forgetful. I also made one using what he originally had me on (200 every two weeks) and had them side by side showing how the 50mg twice a week was very stable and you could visually see the 200mg spiking a LOT!! I then put RETEST on the lab day. I even showed him that, So he could see that there was a week between my dose and lab test. It basically showed that after five weeks Test Cyp was stable at approximately 11-15mg/d. It dropped around a mg/d until on the lab day it was 7mg.

So (Turtello) when are you thanking the lab test should be ran? I’m sure if I present him with something logical he will be fine. Again, On the roid calculator it showed as 11-15 on average daily. If I inject on a Sunday it shows as 15mg, then Monday its 14, and Tuesday 12, and Wednesday 11. Thursday it’s another injection and it shows 15 again. So if it was tested on the middle to lowest number, wouldn’t that be two days after an injection, like Saturday or Tuesday when it shows as 12??

As for the Estradiol, maybe it is a lab mistake. Maybe I’ll ask for a 24 hour urine next. Even the Total test is odd… Several times that I have had it tested using no injections its always in the 280’s or 290’s. Now with 100mg/wk its 239??? Why can’t this be easy? I have been very patient so far. My job closes down in November and my insurance will run out in January if nothing else comes up, so I sure hope I get this figured out before then.


#9

[quote]r1013 wrote:

So (Turtello) when are you thanking the lab test should be ran? I’m sure if I present him with something logical he will be fine. Again, On the roid calculator it showed as 11-15 on average daily. If I inject on a Sunday it shows as 15mg, then Monday its 14, and Tuesday 12, and Wednesday 11. Thursday it’s another injection and it shows 15 again. So if it was tested on the middle to lowest number, wouldn’t that be two days after an injection, like Saturday or Tuesday when it shows as 12??

[/quote]

My opinion, as an internet (pseudo) expert, is that you should check your labs on the same number of days post-injection every time. That way you can directly compare results, other things being equal.

If I was injecting every Sunday and Thursday as you are, I would pick either Tuesday or Wednesday as blood draw day and stick with it. That would be day two or three post-injection, your choice, but the point being your results would be easier to compare across time. There is no reason to wait a week post-injection because you never go a week without injecting in the normal course of events. You want to know what your blood levels are under normal conditions which for you are bi-weekly injections.

I am unfamiliar with the roid calculator. Is it something you found on the internet? There are pharmacokinetic mathematical models that predict peak and trough levels for specific drugs and this can be important, for example, for some antibiotics given IV, especially in the face of renal impairment, but I can’t imagine that this level of sophistication is necessary for testosterone. But the calculator does demonstrate the desirability of dosing testosterone more frequently than every two weeks in order to avoid the high peaks and low troughs, as you saw. KSman is a proponent of every other day injections for this reason.

Your testosterone level is 239 one week after injecting 50 mg. of test cyp because the total amount of drug injected wasn’t very much. The peak blood levels didn’t go very high (good) but there is a need to inject twice a week to get adequate average blood levels. Waiting a week to check the level allowed it to fall lower than normal. I think 239 one week after injecting 50 mg. is not unexpected. Your peak level may have been maybe 5-600 on about day two or three. A level of 239 on day seven is not too hard to believe.

What remains puzzling is why your E2 level was so low on the second lab. I would repeat the lab sometime in the future. In the meantime I wouldn’t worry about it.

Injecting testosterone IM is a reliable way to administer the drug. Good IM absorption is all but assured. BTW, a half inch needle may not result in an IM injection, depending on how much fat you have at the injection site. I use a 1 1/2 inch 27 ga needle in my glutes. I found the quads to be too painful.

Again, sorry I impugned your integrity.