Using More Than 250mg Test E7D?

Westclock · March 1, 2009, 3:46am

[quote]Whoa! wrote:
How many of you guys slamming this protocol, saying it’s a waste of time, a joke, etc., have actually done it? How many of you have actually trained for a sport like what the OP is inquiring about? And cycled specifically for that sport. And I’m not talking about in HS or or div fucking 12 college; I mean really trained.

Because to be honest, a lot of what you guys are saying just sounds like regurgitated bro dogma. If you have any sort of respectable empirical evidence to back up your statements please post it because otherwise no one has any way of knowing whether you are right or wrong.[/quote]

Who the fuck cares what we train for ?

Its not “bro dogma” its a basic knowledge of how the endocrine system functions.

You want empirical evidence that 250mg/week testosterone shuts you down ?

What are you stupid ?

Thats like saying : “I want empirical evidence that fire is hot.”

Will he see benefits from 250mg/week, hell yes. I said earlier he would see strength, speed, recovery, and some lean gains.

Will he experience basically the same recovery issues c oming off as if he were running 500mg/week or 750mg/week or 1000mg/week for that matter.

Also, hell yes.

You act like 500mg/week is alot, thats baby shit, we tell beginners to run that, theres guy that post on this forum that run over a gram, with orals and a secondary injectable stacked on top of it.

If your going to fucking take steroids then dont run them like a little bitch.

Shoot up, get some actual gains, be a complete wrecker on the field, do your PCT, and be happier than shit.

Dont half ass cycling, its all the risk, none of the reward, steroid usage is not for pussies.

Brook1 · March 1, 2009, 10:44am

[quote]Westclock wrote:
Exitus wrote:
Sorry, but I’m not talking about bodybuilders…

I’m talking about football, basketball etc…like one of the first posts about weightlifters and sprinters…

I mean how can anyone who has to run or jump take >250mg per week?

Im also talking about athletes.

Any androgens introduced to the system are going to shut you down.

250mg is going to shut you down in a matter of weeks.[/quote]

approx 3 weeks for Testosterone to achieve full suppression of LH and FSH AND also finally the GnRH.[quote]

You guys have this perception that 250mg/week is not going to shut you down as much.[/quote]

This isnt how it came across to me - it came across that 250 is a good dose for an edge, slight performance increases with little to no noticeable sides, bloating, gyno extreme size increases - which as mentioned are avoided like the plague.[quote]

What you dont realize is that after about 2-3 weeks it doesnt matter what your running, once your shutdown your shutdown.[/quote]

So maybe run frontloaded 4-5 week cycles. Productive and easier to recover from[quote]

If you intend to run for 10 weeks it doesnt matter how much you run.

Might as well get enough gains out of it to make the harsh recovery worth it.[/quote]

Not when in drug tested sport - it isnt about max gains it is a 10th of a second or a centimetre or 10cm etc… all AAS using athletes dont have the same goals… and BB are an extreme example that we are all used to - this kid is a track and field athlete by the sounds of it…[quote]

Use 500 gain 10 pounds of muscle and be able to train like a motherfucker, so that when you come off, even if you only keep 80% of it, thats still years of progress in months.[/quote]

And he will be noticed within weeks that his weight and performance have increased immensely and will be dragged into the test room faster than fuck.[quote]

Speed, recovery, strength, test is pretty much going to make you better at everything.

Or use 250, gain 2-3 pounds, a little better recovery, come off and lose most of it*, and be only slightly better off.[/quote]

250mg to a newbie, with a little proviron (IMO) will give a decent gain in size 5-7lbs - say 5lbs kept (with a short cycle) with performance, aggression, strength and MOST importantly IMO the desire to work harder, to train and compete harder, faster, better all increased.

NB: *And why lose most of it - you guessed a massive 80% kept with 500mg/wk… so the same would allpy to the 2-3 or 5-7lbs gained, would it not?
[/quote]

[quote]
You dont have to use 500, but its more worthwhile.

You will need an AI btw to prevent water retention and estrogen buildup.[/quote]

250 or 1g - this is correct.

Brook

Brook1 · March 1, 2009, 10:48am

[quote]BJammin wrote:
Most first cycles would be more than that, 500 most of the time, seen 750. Plus other gear. 250 is slightly a joke, not slightly, is.[/quote]

WRONG. As is quite common with you.

I have seen with my own eyes (IRL) a few lads do very well from 250 test and 200 deca cycles… lasting 6-8 weeks!
Frontloaded.

Yes some dickhead may do 750mg test for a first cycle but i doubt he still trains with AAS.

JJ

Whoa · March 1, 2009, 3:44pm

Westclock: Look at Brook’s post right after yours. That’s a decent post. Most of the rest of this thread contains little value.

And for the record, I don’t think I’m stupid, but you might be considering you don’t think it’s important to have experience or some other direct knowledge of the discipline(s) which the OP is referring to.

Who the hell needs 500mgs/wk to play fucking basketball?

pickapeck · March 2, 2009, 1:05am

[quote]Westclock wrote:
Exitus wrote:
Sorry, but I’m not talking about bodybuilders…

I’m talking about football, basketball etc…like one of the first posts about weightlifters and sprinters…

I mean how can anyone who has to run or jump take >250mg per week?

Im also talking about athletes.

Any androgens introduced to the system are going to shut you down.

250mg is going to shut you down in a matter of weeks.

You guys have this perception that 250mg/week is not going to shut you down as much.

What you dont realize is that after about 2-3 weeks it doesnt matter what your running, once your shutdown your shutdown.

If you intend to run for 10 weeks it doesnt matter how much you run.

Might as well get enough gains out of it to make the harsh recovery worth it.

Use 500 gain 10 pounds of muscle and be able to train like a motherfucker, so that when you come off, even if you only keep 80% of it, thats still years of progress in months.

Speed, recovery, strength, test is pretty much going to make you better at everything.

Or use 250, gain 2-3 pounds, a little better recovery, come off and lose most of it, and be only slightly better off.

You dont have to use 500, but its more worthwhile.

You will need an AI btw to prevent water retention and estrogen buildup.[/quote]

How many mg in your average cycle total?

Westclock · March 2, 2009, 7:03pm

[quote]pickapeck wrote:
Westclock wrote:
Exitus wrote:
Sorry, but I’m not talking about bodybuilders…

I’m talking about football, basketball etc…like one of the first posts about weightlifters and sprinters…

I mean how can anyone who has to run or jump take >250mg per week?

Im also talking about athletes.

Any androgens introduced to the system are going to shut you down.

250mg is going to shut you down in a matter of weeks.

You guys have this perception that 250mg/week is not going to shut you down as much.

What you dont realize is that after about 2-3 weeks it doesnt matter what your running, once your shutdown your shutdown.

If you intend to run for 10 weeks it doesnt matter how much you run.

Might as well get enough gains out of it to make the harsh recovery worth it.

Use 500 gain 10 pounds of muscle and be able to train like a motherfucker, so that when you come off, even if you only keep 80% of it, thats still years of progress in months.

Speed, recovery, strength, test is pretty much going to make you better at everything.

Or use 250, gain 2-3 pounds, a little better recovery, come off and lose most of it, and be only slightly better off.

You dont have to use 500, but its more worthwhile.

You will need an AI btw to prevent water retention and estrogen buildup.

How many mg in your average cycle total?[/quote]

Probably a little over a gram total. But I rarely run anything but test, deca, dbol and winny.

I have access to human grade stuff, but not a whole lot of variety of it, so if I want mast, prov, abombs, anavar, tren etc I have to go underground lab.

And it is more risky and more effort to order online, so I prefer my domestic human grade stuff anyday.

Trust me a gram a week of human grade is fucking awesome, and is worth more than 2 grams of underground lab stuff in my opinion.

And actually, I have not cycled for a bit now, I was getting too attached to it, it was becoming too big of a part of my life, and the girl Im dating would likely not approve. I haven’t brought it up yet, just been putting it off.

Anywho, the story of random aside to my life is now over, carry on.

some_dude_guy · April 26, 2009, 1:57pm

I am about to make the dive into AAS myself. I don’t mean to argue with my first post, but do want to pose some questions to make you guys rethink the mantra of 500+ mg week.

When buying from a pharmacy, Westclock (and others I’ve heard) seems to think that UG stuff is underdosed and is about half as effective. Wouldn’t this mean that 250mg (or 500mg of UG) of legit gear is about where one wants to be?
True, your system gets shut down whether using 250mg or 1,000mg after a couple of weeks. However, are you SURE that the system is an on/off switch? Can you cite any studies proving so? For every guy I hear claiming it is an on/off switch I hear another vet claiming the opposite, that there are degrees of shut-down…and that the longer the cycle and higher the dose, the harder the recovery.
I have seen you guys talking about only gaining 10lbs from a 500mg a week cycle. I am guessing it is due to having numeros cycles under your belt and that you must be well beyond your genetic potential right?..It seems that for a beginner, one can gain 20-25lbs off a 500mg cycle, no? If so, why not start low to save the receptors and gain the 10lbs from 250mg?

Once again guys, not looking for an argument, just want to have some constructive thinking here.

Westclock, great avatar btw…

some_dude_guy · April 26, 2009, 3:08pm

To add to #2 above…

"Cy Willson produced some studies that showed that the body still produces a small amount of Testosterone, even when you’re taking a small, HRT-like dosage. "

See: http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_interviews/the_steroid_nurse

Dynamo_Hum · April 26, 2009, 8:26pm

some-dude-guy,

UG gear can be under dosed, perfectly dosed, or over-dosed. Of course script gear is perfectly dosed. Any time you obtain gear from other than a script (whether it be purported “human grade” or UG, there is a strong possibility that it may not be exactly what it is described as. This can be reduced greatly with extensive research and, trial and error, and the word of trusted friends.
I haven’t looked for studies to confirm the level of exo test per week required for shutdown, but suffice to say that at 500mg/w and up one is definitely completely shut down. This I have confirmed through several blood tests at the end of 10 and 8 week cycles respectively. Furthermore if Bill Roberts says the threshold for shutdown is around 100mg/w; then you can take it as gospel.
On a well run first cycle (adequate food intake, training, sleep, etc) at 500mg/w of test, a gain of 20-30 lbs is indeed quite normal. Subsequent cycles tend not to be as bountiful as you have already made one quantum leap. It can happen that everything aligns in a subsequent cycle and you do make those huge gains once again, but that would be the exception IMO.

MaddyD · April 26, 2009, 8:45pm

ok, my 2 cents here

running any amount of AAS is very much based on the individual.

if you want that slight edge without the bloating and the testing crap and all that, I would suggest get blood work done first.

if you have low test then yes 250 will bring you up, but how far?
it will not bring you up as far as say if you had higher natural test levels.

find out first where you would sit at 250 a week or 300 a week ect, you may find out you would actually need less for your goal than you think.

run a low dose that you figure out prior with an AI , short acting ester like test prop, run it for 3-4 weeks before you get fully shut down you start pct.
go in the end of the month get another blood work up done and see what it did.
run a standard ai+serm pct for a few weeks while your levels come back down to normal.
and there you have it 1 month of super high test to help with recovery, very subtle where no one on the outs will notice, and you have no long term shut down to recover from or anything.

I have personally done 500mg test prop for 4 weeks before and it was not dramatic but it did do me well.