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Using Matt K's Water Cut for MMA?


#1

To keep this thread short and sweet, would the method that Matt K uses to make weight be effective for someone fighting MMA?

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/cut_max_weight_for_comp.htm

I am fighting my first MMA fight Friday Weigh ins are Thursday, I am fighting at 185, and woke up this morning at 190.

Up until yesterday I had been drinking in excess of 3 gallons of water a day. Today I drank one gallon of distilled water.

As for rehydration and weight gain which foods would you suggest? Ideally I wont feel like I have to take a huge shit when I'm stepping into the cage.


#2

I was reading another article on ELITEFTS by Brian Schwabb, and he drops down to nothing but Protein bars the last 2 days along w/ water manipulation, BUT Im not sure what is ideal just passing along the info…the article should be in the Elite archives…another thing if the protein bars were a good route to go what brand/kind would be optimal? anyone have an opinion? Schwab doesnt give that info in the article.


#3

So you’re cutting 5 pounds?
That certainly won’t call for the type of measures Kroc outlines. Personally I drop down 5 pounds after low carbing for a day and a bit of sweating (PS: have yet to cut weight for competition, just my experience with dieting).

As for the nutrient loading he talks about, if it’s only 5 pounds I don’t think its necessary. Just eat more than normal till you’re back to your original weight. Plus, dunno about you, but when I carb-load excessively, to the point I start retaining noticeable subcutaneous water, I feel sluggish and don’t move as well.


#4

Cut the night before in a sauna and then refuel with good healthy food and lots of water. I have seen this video and I do suggest pedialite over gatorade. Drink the first half of the bottle straight then mix water and finish it off. As far as day of fight foods, nothing processed and only food you are used to that doesnt up set you stomach. Protein shakes after weigh-ins are good too. I have 10 fights under my belt I cut from 220 to 205, all i have to say is you better make weight. Christ, you should be cutting to 155 or 170.


#5

to be honest there are lots of threads about this… need to peep it up.

Ill tel you what I tell everyone…

if your body comp is in order some water maniupulation a good movement and some belly lint your there.

Or if you want to go the sauna suit route 5 lbs is 1 hour no problem.

Kroc is an elite freak and I mean that in the kindest way.
he is also allot larger and can cut that 25+ pounds his method is sound, but he does it on the regular.
Its another thing to practice.

eat modest meals of protein and greens- with plenty of fiber to get things moving
load up on water till say tuesday, then cut back.

I would not suggest protein bars. or supplements in exchange for real food.

how much do you weigh at the end of training?
your training should be pretty much low key crap right now…
5lbs is easy peasy


#6

Put on a couple sweatsuits and do sprints before weigh ins, or if you frequent a gym with a sauna and the gym will be open early enough just go sit in the sauna for 20-30 minutes. After weigh ins you could have Pedialyte or Gatorade, then have a balanced meal with some protein source and [complex]carbs.


#7

I am usually heavier post training because I usually down over a gallon of water over the course of the workout. Why not protein bars over real food?

As for cutting to 170… maybe the next fight


#8

protein bars aren’t real food and are kind of hard to digest-
I used to do water, something like pedyalite cut with water,
soft food like baby food, or yogurt, then
real food later.

But I was cutting 12 to 15 lbs weighing less then 140 and doing 2 to 3x a week

really for your first fight , first cut, keep it simple
do what feels good, dont gorge, dont eat too much junk post weigh in.
steer clear of salt, for a few days and youll be fine.
dont make it a science project or get too anxious.
first fight its important to just relax

have fun and good luck.

ps no offense but this is the internet… there is always some decent advice and some shit.
surely someone at your gym can walk you through this maybe a coach?


#9

[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
protein bars aren’t real food and are kind of hard to digest-
I used to do water, something like pedyalite cut with water,
soft food like baby food, or yogurt, then
real food later.

But I was cutting 12 to 15 lbs weighing less then 140 and doing 2 to 3x a week

really for your first fight , first cut, keep it simple
do what feels good, dont gorge, dont eat too much junk post weigh in.
steer clear of salt, for a few days and youll be fine.
dont make it a science project or get too anxious.
first fight its important to just relax

have fun and good luck.

ps no offense but this is the internet… there is always some decent advice and some shit.
surely someone at your gym can walk you through this maybe a coach?

[/quote]

Yeah I’ve got a coach who gave me the jist of it, which seems to coordinate well with everything I’m reading, but its always good to get another opinion


#10

For 5 pounds I would just sweat it out, head into the sauna.
After the weigh in just fill up on some water gradually so you don’t get an upset stomach and you should be fine.

And enjoy the fight, you’ll be a little bit nervous and maybe get a sticky mouth. Don’t drink too much, stay hydrated and get some :slight_smile:

Good luck!


#11

IMO, you should attempt to cut weight at least once every 1-2 months just so you’re

A) Familiar with the practice
B) You know your body and where you’re at
C) It’ll motivate you not to stray too far out of your weight class
D) You know how much muscle you can gain, and how much fat you need to lose to optimize your body composition

That said, Kroc’s method is sound. OBVIOUSLY if you’re lower bodyweight you’re not going to be losing as much in poundage but you will lose the same proportionally. To tell you the truth Kroc’s method works like a charm actually… I’ve heard a lot of variations of it (one including 1/3 rubbing alchohol in the water to suck more water out of your skin, kinda crazy, imo). Unfortunately, I think that losing more than 20% of your bodyweight in water weight (and for the combat athlete I’d try to stay within 10-15%) can have negative effects on your ability to perform optimally.

What I say here is NOT a knock against Kroc, power lifters, or any strength athlete. But fact is that MMA is NOT a “strength” sport (per-say) it requires EVERY type of strength, mental resiliency, and physical energy system the body utilizes. While you do get a 1 minute rest between rounds it’s essentially 15-25minutes of Tabata intervals with a more unexpected (often times even moreso) vigorous pace, physical punishment (if not the end of the fight) everytime you fail, a ton of isometric work (something I never really see trained in MMA specials- but extremely important for submission specialists) and I’m not even mentioning how the constant movement factor will tax you aerobically… And different aspects of this are magnified depending on your weight class, your personal style of fighting and even bodytype.

The metabolic effects are much more like running a 5k than it is a powerlifting competition. Kroc is a fucking beast, but I seriously doubt even he would cut weight like that if he had to do what most combat athletes have to. The day before drop 30lbs, get little sleep (he said 3 hrs) and then trying to gain your water weight back and get rested again before a huge fight?

(most) People do it but a large majority of them having been doing it most of their life… and once again, it’s something you have to practice to really perfect. When you know you’ve practiced a 15lb drop, and you’re actually weighing less (after fight camp) than you did when you practiced the drop, you go in there with confidence knowing how your body will react. That alone is worth it’s weight in GOLD. People forget the mental aspect.

How do 5k runners and athletes eat/train before a race? They get as low weight as they can prior to their event, then they carb load like a motherfucker. So they have energy stores and glycogen high as fuck before their event. That’s what MMA athletes should utilize (to a lesser extent of course) but getting as low as you can in fight camp (using whatever substances you can that aren’t banned of course) and cut the rest (enough to keep you close enough to a healthy comfortable weight and close to your opponent so that you’re not completely outweighed (unless you feel you can (EASILY) make up for the deficit with skill/strength) and then carb load like a motherfucker before your fight, super hydrating your body (Finibars are great for this actually, they contain glycerin which will superhydrate your muscles, the effect is fairly short lived useful).

Forgive me for mentally vomiting all over this thread I had a lot on my mind regarding this in my own training, I’m going to do a practice cut at the end of summer after I bulk up a bit. I had to stop training for a little bit… life’s getting in the way lately.


#12

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
All that stuff.
[/quote]

This post > Martin Rooney.

By the way Xen how do you deal with those layoffs in between training combat sports? I constantly find life getting in the way of grappling, and so progress suffers as a result.


#13

No fucking clue. Just grit your teeth get through it but keep training as much as possible. At this point I’ve cut so much shit out of my life to keep training that I’m 1 step away from just asking my coach if I can live in the gym cause shit is just getting way to fucking complicated lol. At some point you have to decide what it is you want MOST and mma has to be it. Not your girl, not parties, not the fame, not money, simply long for the purity of combat and want it more than ANYTHING.

this keeps me pretty motivated-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLN2k0b3g70&feature=player_embedded


#14

Well hey, I weighed in at 182.2, and by the next day I was stepping in the scale at 196. I started my cut at about 190.

I won my first fight by unanimous decision, and I’m really happy with my performance and the way things turned out.


#15

Hell yeah, good job dude