I’ll see y’all later. I knew there was a reason I didn’t use this forum.
I have done the experiment and I came to the conclusion it’s not worth it. It’s better to control estrogen indirectly with anastrozole (Arimidex) or exemestane (Aromasin).
I tried using estradiol gel and patches. Didn’t use pills (because they are hard on the liver, and the idea was to take this long-term, so I have to spare the liver) nor injections (because if we inject too much, it can’t be quickly corrected, unlike the pills/gel/patches).
The gel causes too much spikes, its absorption is too erratic. So the patch is the best form of administration, that keeps E2 levels stable. However, they irritate my skin, I was itching a lot, sometimes involuntarily scratching where the patch was because of the itch. It was such a relief when I took off the patches. So the patches didn’t work because of skin irritation.
To sum up so far:
- Pills: hard on the liver
- Gel: erratic absorption and E2 spikes
- Patches: skin irritation
- Injections: very easy to inject more than needed and too hard (impossible) to correct if it happens
The AI I took during the experiment to completely block E2 production was anastrozole (0,5 mg/day). Even though I managed to stay within my E2 sweet spot on my blood tests, I didn’t feel well. Some people say that the side effects of anastrozole are not because of anastrozole, per se, but because of low E2 caused by anastrozole. I beg to differ. It seems to me that anastrozole (especially in high doses) has it own set of side effects unrelated to estradiol levels. Because I felt better with the same E2 levels without anastrozole. This could also be caused not by the anastrozole but by the exogenous estradiol and its complicated relation to the other estrogens (estrone and estriol), as one poster above noted. When blocking aromatase and using exogenous estradiol there could be some mechanisms involving estriol and estrone that work differently with our natural, aromatase-produced E2.
So while this idea, in theory, sounds good, in practice it’s not so good.
I think the only scenarios where it would be worth to use exogenous estradiol would be:
- If you have aromatase deficiency and need more E2 to achieve the perfect T:E2 ratio
- If you are taking so much testosterone that your aromatase can’t produce enough E2 so you end up with your T:E2 ratio out of wack, so more E2 would bring your ratio to where it should be if you weren’t overdosing on T
By the way, I noticed that I am an over responder of anastrozole. I need 0,025 mg a day when on 250 mg/week of testosterone. I had a compounding pharmacy make liquid estradiol 0,5 mg/ml (0,5 mg per 20 drops), so one drop is 0,025 mg. I take one drop per day. If I double my testosterone dosage then I HAVE to stop anastrozole AND supplement with exogenous E2 otherwise my aromatase doesn’t produce enough E2 and I get low E2 symptoms because my T:E2 gets out of whack (I’m scenario 2 in my above post).
You might consider sublingual estradiol/estradiol valerate - bypass first pass and lower e1/e2 ratio.
E2 is joint protective, among other things. There’s no scientific reason to block higher natural levels of E2 if you are not symptomatic. Anastrozole has a lot of negative side olng term, especially concerning brain chemistry. I thinks that’s everything.
Less is more. You cannot actually be scenario 2. You may be artificially inducing E2 problems with the AI, but if you don’t aromatise sufficiently you definitely wouldn’t need an AI. Why exactly are you so determined to use something that doesn’t work well for you? Maybe aromasin would be a better choice in your case if you actually need an AI.
Aromasin was worse in my case.
The pharmacokinectics of sublingual E2 valerate are not good. Too high of a peak in the first hours.
I actually found that out by trial and error. That I feel better when overdosing on T (like 500mg per week) and complementing with extra E2 and stopping the AI, otherwise I get low E2 symptoms.
Every body is unique, and so are the levels that it likes. An E2 of 22 is just worse than useless for me, for instance. Most guys are in a hurry - understandably - but a little patience goes a long way. The body adjusts and finds the right levels when it has what it needs. Trying to micro-manage the hormone system is just an exercise in frustration.
I use valerate sublingual and have not experienced high estrogen symptoms. My guess would be that the high peaking of serum levels and consequent degradation is too rapid to be of consequence. It sounds like you’ve looked at the data. Notice that beyond the initial peak, serum levels are very consistent. YMMV
I fully agree with that.
Have you looked into Proviron for its AI properties? It can lower estrogen and free up more testosterone, its oral and not liver toxic either.