T Nation

Using an AI to Stop Estrogen Production & Taking Estrogen Pills


#1

Hello,

I’m on a blast and cruise protocol, cruising 250 mg of testosterone per week in the form of sustanon injections, and my blast protocol is 500 mg/week.

Like many other users, I am having a very hard time getting estrogen under control. It’s either too high or too low. And I’m not going just by the labs (I am doing bloodwork once per week). I can’t stand anymore the rollercoaster of the high and low estrogen symptoms. I’ve tried both Arimidex (anastrozole) and Aromasin (exemestane) and they both suck, in different ways, but the end result is the same: estrogen either too low or too high.

What about taking a high dose of an AI (for example, Arimidex 0.5 mg/day) so I completely stop aromatizing, and since some estrogen is needed in our bodies, I start taking either an estrogen pill or start using an estrogen gel (Estrogel)? The pharmacokinects of both the estrogen pill and the gel seems to be a lot simpler to understand than trying to balance estrogen using an AI. Take a look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacokinetics_of_estradiol … The effects of how much the estrogen would rise according to a specific dose, and for how long, seems to be very well documented and straightforward. It seems like it would be simpler to completely stop our bodies from producing estrogen and the pill or the gel would allow us to keep estrogen in the desired target range than the guessing game with an AI (and the long waiting after we get the dose wrong - be it too much or too low). The gel would have the advantage of not stressing the liver, unlike the pills.

It’s very difficult to find on the internet anyone suggesting to take estrogen pills when crashing your E2 using an AI - I’ve crashed a few times and I’ve used those estrogen pills, they saved me and didn’t give me gynecomastia nor abnormally high estrogen levels when doing my once-a-week blood tests. The results I have had when I crashed my E2 and took estrogen pills were very predictable (unlike the results I get with Arimidex or Aromasin). I’ve researched a lot about this and there are no discussions about this, only found one post in one thread one guy saying it was a “stupid idea” - but he didn’t explain why.

Since we are already stopping our natural testosterone production to manipulate our testosterone with the exogenous version of the hormone, wouldn’t it make sense to do the same with estrogen? That way we could have complete control over both testosterone and estrogen, in a predictable manner. No more guessing games trying to “indirectly” manage estrogen. If this is a stupid idea, why is that?


#2

I have never tried synthetic estrogen so keep that in mind.

I do remember when I first got into AAS I was reading up on different compounds and different stacks. Somewhere, and i wish I could remember, I did read that at a certain point of AAS usage in combination with bodybuilding that some of the pros do in fact do what you were describing. Basically tanking all natural estrogen then using synthetic estrogen to optimize levels for growth. I don’t know if they were doing it just to control the overall level, they were doing it so they had the higher levels when it would be best for their muscle growth.
So somewhere out there is the forum that would possibly help guide you.

The practice can’t be that rare because when I price raws for home brewing over half of the “full service” laboratories have estrogen listed as an available raw for you to order. I have seen progesterone listed once I think but estrogen is listed more often than DHB/dihydroboldenone aka 1-test.

You might want to try and find a forum that has insulin usage as one of it’s topics. I think the pros start messing with the insulin then after that comes the synthetic estrogen.


#3

I have been asking this question for some time now. After constantly reading about guys on this Arimidex roller coaster it only makes sense to me that we also manipulate estrogen directly. In my mind a suicidal aromatase inhibitor is the only drug that makes sense in this regard as it kills the aromatase permanently. Why not go all out and use letrozol to wipe out aromatase and supplement estrogen? Its the perfect scenario in my mind unless there is something downstream that aromatase is responsible for that I’m not aware of. Btw, when you supplemented estrogen before how much in terms of milligrams did you use and what was the e2 total on your bloodwork?


#4

You need to take SERM like tamoxifen not an AI. All you really want to do is prevent gyno which tamoxifen will do while allowing the other benefits of estrogen to work in your body (i.e. libido, muscle growth, bone density, etc)

I would never suggest than a male take exogenous estrogen, especially while on TRT. Way too dangerous. Just control the negative side effects while retaining the positives.


#5

Stop. Using. Sustanon. These blends sound so good on paper but when applied to real life they’re just an e2 management nightmare for a whole ton of guys. You’re one of them. Use one predictable ester and get into a better groove.


#7

alldayeveryday:

I suggested Arimidex instead of Aromasin because in my country the generic for Arimidex (anastrozole) is a lot cheaper than the generic for Aromasin (exemestane). Also, it may be just a coincidence, but my blood pressure increased a lot since I started exemestane. I know that high BP is a symptom of high estrogen, but my BP stayed very high even after having my estrogen crashed. Now that I haven’t taken Aromasin anymore, since I decided to go back to Arimidex, my BP seems to be getting better. I’ve seen that some men have this side effect with exemestane, others do not. So it seems to me that Arimidex (anastrozole) would be cheaper and less harsh on the body.

2 mg of oral estrogen brings my E2 level to around 40 pg/ml and 3 mg to around 60 pg/ml.


#8

studhammer:

Thanks for the suggestion, I will research more on tamoxifen.

You say that is too dangerous for a male to take exogenous estrogen. Why is that? Is the exogenous estrogen processed differently in the body compared to the estrogen created by the aromatase enzyme? Or it’s just the risk of raising estrogen too much by mistake?


#9

Thanks for opening my eye on that. I’ve researched more about this and I expected the release of testosterone with sustanon to be linear, but I was wrong, it doesn’t seem to be like that at all. What do you recommend to use so I can keep the testosterone release constant instead of having spikes? Enanthate 2x per week would be better than sustanon 1x a week?


#10

That’s a solid choice. Either C or E twice a week is a proven way to do it. Guys also run prop eod, but I’m not a fan.


#11

This is my concern. It just seems hazardous try to eliminate natural E2 and then substitute it for exogenous E2. Your test will convert by itself, just need to control the negatives and tamoxifen will do that.


#12

Thank you for that info. I appreciate your response


#13

I dont see the hazard. Is it “hazardous” to inject exogenous testosterone and shut down your natural production? Manipulating your dosage to find a healthy place for your body and mind? What about diabetes? Estrogen is a hormone. It can be controlled and manipulated as well. It happens in HRT clinics every day. My workout partner had e2 at 84. He is taking high doses of arimidex and it brought his e2 down to 50. He struggles with trt. Like so many people on this forum. Obviously you dont want e2 to high so micro dose e2 replacement. If 2 mg got this man to 40 than start with 1 mg. It makes sense to me. I wish I had access to e2 replacement at some points. Being crashed on e2 is hell. I’ve spent years there. It seems like it simplifies everything


#14

If I remember right, the protocol discussed was to completely eliminate natural e2 with a suicidal AI and then add exogenous e2 to try to correct. Just seems dangerous to me. But I’m certainly not goig to judge someone on just caution them to think through or get a second opinion.


#15

Aromatase signals the liver to release IGF-1.

Fun fact: longer esters of test aromatise more, and so signal your liver to release more IGF-1, which could, in theory, mean you get bigger from longer esters.