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Using 5/3/1 While Cutting

Hey Jim, I have a friend who is cutting while using 5/3/1. He is using the “Simplest Strength Template” you wrote in your original 5/3/1 book.

Now, after reading beyond 5/3/1 I see so many new methods and I was wondering: which template would you recommend the most for using 5/3/1 while cutting?

Also, would you recommend doing joker sets and BBB at the same time? (this question is for myself)

5/3/1 isn’t for “cutting” that is flat out gay. Lift an eat to get strong… Do your conditioning. I guess if you care about your cutting( so gay) then just monitor what you eat.

[quote]yanivgoft wrote:
Hey Jim, I have a friend who is cutting while using 5/3/1. He is using the “Simplest Strength Template” you wrote in your original 5/3/1 book.

Now, after reading beyond 5/3/1 I see so many new methods and I was wondering: which template would you recommend the most for using 5/3/1 while cutting?

Also, would you recommend doing joker sets and BBB at the same time? (this question is for myself)[/quote]

I would think that 5/3/1 would be a very good program when on a caloric deficit since it promotes strenght and that is what you want to work your ass off to keep. Cut the volume on assistance work. Train to keep the strenght and muscle you have and do hill sprints etc to burn calories. Be patient.

[quote]Rupert531 wrote:
5/3/1 isn’t for “cutting” that is flat out gay. Lift an eat to get strong… Do your conditioning. I guess if you care about your cutting( so gay) then just monitor what you eat. [/quote]

How is monitoring what you’re eating different from “cutting”?

[quote]Rupert531 wrote:
5/3/1 isn’t for “cutting” that is flat out gay. Lift an eat to get strong… Do your conditioning. I guess if you care about your cutting( so gay) then just monitor what you eat. [/quote]
What’s wrong with cutting? Fat wont make you stronger, if you are still fairly new to training and can still gain a lot of muscle and aren’t in a good weight class yet you should bulk and cut till you get there. In March I was in a meet and totaled 1058 in the 182 weight class (age 18-19). After that I started cutting, and then I bulked again and 4 days ago I totaled 1202 in the 182 weight class. I got a lot stronger. Now I’ll keep on bulking till I reach the next weighult class. Then I’ll cut again and reach 198 again…
My friend is 180 pounds, still new to lifting (He squatted 375 and Deadlifted 452 in the meet…) and he is like 25% BF.

It’s not about being ripped with abs and all that bullshit, it’s about not being unnecessarily fat.

1 Like

[quote]Megatron999 wrote:

[quote]yanivgoft wrote:
Hey Jim, I have a friend who is cutting while using 5/3/1. He is using the “Simplest Strength Template” you wrote in your original 5/3/1 book.

Now, after reading beyond 5/3/1 I see so many new methods and I was wondering: which template would you recommend the most for using 5/3/1 while cutting?

Also, would you recommend doing joker sets and BBB at the same time? (this question is for myself)[/quote]

I would think that 5/3/1 would be a very good program when on a caloric deficit since it promotes strenght and that is what you want to work your ass off to keep. Cut the volume on assistance work. Train to keep the strenght and muscle you have and do hill sprints etc to burn calories. Be patient. [/quote]
I also think 5/3/1 is great when on a caloric derelict but I was wondering what template would Jim recommend best for cutting, cause I know BBB is too much when cutting and you need to eat like a man when doing that… I used SST for my cut but I wanted to know what Jim thinks and should he do Joker sets or First Set Lasts and stuff like that or is that also too much on the body.

Also, for myself I’m trying to see if joker sets are a good idea when combining them with BBB

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

[quote]Rupert531 wrote:
5/3/1 isn’t for “cutting” that is flat out gay. Lift an eat to get strong… Do your conditioning. I guess if you care about your cutting( so gay) then just monitor what you eat. [/quote]

How is monitoring what you’re eating different from “cutting”?[/quote]
Im saying this program isn’t for cutting… Jim even says it himself. Not saying go eat shit everyday an expect miracles but if you do what he recommends an stay consistent you don’t have to worry about that shit it’ll take care of itself.

[quote]yanivgoft wrote:

[quote]Rupert531 wrote:
5/3/1 isn’t for “cutting” that is flat out gay. Lift an eat to get strong… Do your conditioning. I guess if you care about your cutting( so gay) then just monitor what you eat. [/quote]
What’s wrong with cutting? Fat wont make you stronger, if you are still fairly new to training and can still gain a lot of muscle and aren’t in a good weight class yet you should bulk and cut till you get there. In March I was in a meet and totaled 1058 in the 182 weight class (age 18-19). After that I started cutting, and then I bulked again and 4 days ago I totaled 1202 in the 182 weight class. I got a lot stronger. Now I’ll keep on bulking till I reach the next weighult class. Then I’ll cut again and reach 198 again…
My friend is 180 pounds, still new to lifting (He squatted 375 and Deadlifted 452 in the meet…) and he is like 25% BF.

It’s not about being ripped with abs and all that bullshit, it’s about not being unnecessarily fat. [/quote]
I hear ya man… To each their own. I’m certainly not the next guy on the cover of men’s fitness. But that’s cause I don’t care to be. I lift hard , run and that’s that… I try not to stress much more about training an try an enjoy it a little bit. I’m saying all this bulk an cutting crap, in my opinion, shouldn’t be stressed when on 5/3/1. I apologize for my previous comment. Just was giving an opinion cause that’s what these forums are for I suppose. Good luck and keep at it… Seems like from what you’ve told me you’ve had success though, why change it?

Fat doesn’t make you stronger. Got it!

[quote]yanivgoft wrote:
Hey Jim, I have a friend who is cutting while using 5/3/1. He is using the “Simplest Strength Template” you wrote in your original 5/3/1 book.

Now, after reading beyond 5/3/1 I see so many new methods and I was wondering: which template would you recommend the most for using 5/3/1 while cutting?

Also, would you recommend doing joker sets and BBB at the same time? (this question is for [/quote]

I wrote this program to get stronger. I’m not sure how one would train and continue having an eating disorder.

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:

[quote]yanivgoft wrote:
Hey Jim, I have a friend who is cutting while using 5/3/1. He is using the “Simplest Strength Template” you wrote in your original 5/3/1 book.

Now, after reading beyond 5/3/1 I see so many new methods and I was wondering: which template would you recommend the most for using 5/3/1 while cutting?

Also, would you recommend doing joker sets and BBB at the same time? (this question is for [/quote]

I wrote this program to get stronger. I’m not sure how one would train and continue having an eating disorder.[/quote]
Exactly. The point I was trying to make

see if you can track down Berardi’s old articles on g-flux. think about how compatible the concept would be with NOV.

well, I’m pretty shure you can cut while using 5-3-1, but thinking you could use BBB is stupid. it’s called Boring BUT BIG for a reason… Jocker sets would be too demanding too I think. Try it if you whant, but my guess is that you’ll collapsed pretty soon and won’t make any gains. Do the regular version, deload every 3 weeks, go conditioning hard like sprints after each workout instead of doing more volume. keep the assist lift low, even more on leg days. cheers mate !

You use Joker sets the same way anyone else would: you do them depending on how you feel on that given day (autoregulation). On page 31 of Beyond, Jim says Jokers and FSL should almost always be a part of your program… whether cutting or doing BBB.

Overall volume (including FSL and accessory work) depends on how much of a deficit you’re actually in. Down sets like FSL are very well supported, and should be incorporated as often as you can get away with it.

There are more efficient ways of losing body fat then the standard caloric deficit method. Try a CKD (Cyclical Ketogenic Diet) like Carb Nite, or the Apex Predator diet. I was doing Carb Nite with 2 refeeds a week on squat day and deadlift day, and my weight would always be between 195 and 198 with my lifts steadily going up.

I am doing my first meet in april, and I swapped over too one refeed and one day of PSMF (ala the velocity diet) with an ECA stack in an attempt to get down to 181 by then. I am into my 2nd week of this and down about two pounds, with no real effect on my strength so far. I would suggest a pre training banana and some surge or other fast carb drink for training on your refeed day.

On a side note, I am diabetic, so using very low carb diets is a matter of health and allows me to forgo medication.

[quote]yanivgoft wrote:
Hey Jim, I have a friend who is cutting while using 5/3/1. He is using the “Simplest Strength Template” you wrote in your original 5/3/1 book.

Now, after reading beyond 5/3/1 I see so many new methods and I was wondering: which template would you recommend the most for using 5/3/1 while cutting?

Also, would you recommend doing joker sets and BBB at the same time? (this question is for myself)[/quote]

I’m cutting and start with 16% bf and now 11,7% with strenght trainings.

5/3/1 is the overall better option if you dont want to stall while cutting, I love fullbody template.

I’ll start with calorie surplus in January, train hard and eat clean.

On a cut i would try the 5x5 template from beyond 5/3/1 …