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Using 100 Gram Carb Cure to Bulk?

thanks for the advice. I have spent the last hour studying articles on the beginners forums. i have noticed different opinions on P/C and P/F dietary guidelines while bulking. What are your recommendations?

[quote]luvstolift wrote:
thanks. i am one of those people who can eat 3000 cals and not gain an ounce even on bed rest (no joke). would really like to be cautious about my food choices though and dont want to be like oh shit i gained weight but now i look awful. so according to Bricknyce i guess the competition is out of the question? unless it is possible to do a competition without cutting? i guess it depends on the person. this would have been my first competition so like i said before i really dont know what the hell im doing.[/quote]

Right. How is a beginner in shape or knowledgeable enough to compete after three months of starting this whole thing?!

And who competes without knowing what they’re doing?

There’s no competition without leaning out unless you are aiming to come in last place or just showing up for the sake of it.

[quote]luvstolift wrote:
thanks for the advice. I have spent the last hour studying articles on the beginners forums. i have noticed different opinions on P/C and P/F dietary guidelines while bulking. What are your recommendations?[/quote]

Do the same shit everyone else does when starting out!

  1. Set calories to gain. A pretty good guideline for gaining is 15+ calories per pound of bodyweight. You’ll have to tweak this to see what you gain from. You said you eat a great deal as it is and aren’t gaining weight.
  2. Set protein at 1 g per pound of bodyweight.
  3. Set fat at 20-30% fat.
  4. Fill the rest of calories as carbs.
  5. Read some articles and talk to some people for help. But don’t DO what everyone’s telling you. Otherwise you’ll shift from one dietary strategy to the next and you’ll wind up re-organizing your diet more often than being consistent.

Hence why I predict that after reading this post, someone (or several someones, a few whom I have in mind already) will pop up and say something like, “OK, not bad advice; but I’d like to see more fat and less carbs,” or “I’d like to see more protein,” or “Don’t you think… (some weird shit like implementing off-the-wall shit with a beginner)?”

NO ONE ever went wrong with the guidelines I provide above when starting out!

[quote]PB Andy wrote:
Bulking with a limit on carbs can be pretty hard. If I were you I’d do something like carb cycling. Or if you don’t want to get that complicated, just eat a lot of rice and potatoes before/after your workout.[/quote]

You’re suggesting carb cycling to someone who doesn’t even know how to map out a basic diet for herself and who has next to zero experience!

Not knowing what you’re doing leaves you at beginner status despite how long you don’t know what you’re doing. You can be training for three years not knowing what you’re doing and this most likely will yield little to no results, therefore leaving you at beginner status despite stepping in a gym and attempting to eat alright for that length of time.

“Bulking with a limit on carbs can be pretty hard.”

Uh, there has to be limits on things no matter if you’re bulking or cutting.

See here also. http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/what_the_is_so_hard_about_writing_a_basic_diet

Low carb diets are not ideal for weight training if seeking size and strength.

i really appreciate all of the advice! i need to stop being lazy, asking people to just tell me what to eat because i dont trust myself, and figure it out by myself with the help of these guidelines. i guess the old saying goes “give a man a fish feed him for a day, teach him how to fish, feed him for life” really applies.

i only know a couple other figure athletes and when i questioned them about their diets they tell me they just do what their trainers tell them. one girl even told me she has been doing the same diet for the past five shows which to me does not seem like a smart idea? i think the same applies to training. i can kill my quads and torch my triceps but it hasnt done shit for my strength gains (hence why i am now doing the novice program).

another question (sorry to be a pain in the ass) --being a beginner, do u just recommend focusing on the food right now or are there any supplements you believe to be necessary?

I think Brick makes two good points:

  1. You can’t go from zero to competition in 4 months.
  2. Try a more basic bulking diet.

However, a third point is that Rippetoe’s Starting Strength is really not geared towards figure competition, at all. I mean, it’s great for learning the lifts and building basic strength and bulking up (if you follow the heavy duty nutritional recommendations, gallon of milk a day, etc).

But if you really hammered the program hard, your legs and butt would get super strong, and your upper body would stay fairly small. And you’d gain more fat than necessary from the super duper caloric excess. (you’re going to gain some fat in a bulk no matter what).

I don’t have any recommendations for a “fitness program” though. And Rippetoes might still work for you, just for a fairly short period (couple months, maybe?)

ok this may be taking on too many tasks at once but along with competing i would really like to increase my squat weight. if i were to follow starting strength is it possible to add assistant upper body lifts and do a different diet or would that be stupid since im not following the program as written?

[quote]luvstolift wrote:
ok this may be taking on too many tasks at once but along with competing i would really like to increase my squat weight. if i were to follow starting strength is it possible to add assistant upper body lifts and do a different diet or would that be stupid since im not following the program as written?[/quote]
Stop complicating things. It doesn’t matter what the hell minor tweaks you make. Just stop concentrating on minutia and just get the basics NAILED DOWN to the M*&$^% F*&%(&$ floor.

…no offense. :stuck_out_tongue:

ha no offense taken iv already decided the april 2 show is a no show so im shooting for october and planning on gaining substantial size going to focus on the basic lifts, basic nutrition, and STOP TRYING TO COMPLICATE THINGS! lol

[quote]luvstolift wrote:
ok this may be taking on too many tasks at once but along with competing i would really like to increase my squat weight. if i were to follow starting strength is it possible to add assistant upper body lifts and do a different diet or would that be stupid since im not following the program as written?[/quote]

Maybe I’m asking this in ignorance or stupidity. My brother just lent me SS. Where in the book does Mark Rippetoe outline a diet? If he does, I’ll go to it tonight.

You can add assistance work, but if I recall correctly, he doesn’t prefer people doing that til three months in.

Bill Starr has a similar program, and he’s always been including assistance work.

Generally speaking, following programs with some minor tweaks is alright. Completely rearranging them is “stupid” (if this is the preferred word).

[quote]EasyRhino wrote:
I think Brick makes two good points:

  1. You can’t go from zero to competition in 4 months.
  2. Try a more basic bulking diet.

However, a third point is that Rippetoe’s Starting Strength is really not geared towards figure competition, at all. I mean, it’s great for learning the lifts and building basic strength and bulking up (if you follow the heavy duty nutritional recommendations, gallon of milk a day, etc).

But if you really hammered the program hard, your legs and butt would get super strong, and your upper body would stay fairly small. And you’d gain more fat than necessary from the super duper caloric excess. (you’re going to gain some fat in a bulk no matter what).

I don’t have any recommendations for a “fitness program” though. And Rippetoes might still work for you, just for a fairly short period (couple months, maybe?)[/quote]

Thanks!

MR’s program isn’t geard towards figure competition, but a noob to weight lifting is a noob, regardless of what the weight lifting will be for. So the noob has to “learn how to lift”, no matter what kind of beginner’s approach you take (Starting Strength, generic full body program, any of the full body routines in Stuart McRobert’s books, and so on). There’s another author who I’d like to mention and link to because he has great articles for beginners, but in the past I’ve been asked by mods not to because he’s a competitor or whatever.

Do you really think MR would tell a 90 pound female to guzzle a gallon of milk a day? He doesn’t advocate excessive fat gain for anyone and if I recall correctly, he doesn’t give any specific dietary recommendations other than “eat enough protein and calories”. Besides, nutriton isn’t part of his TRAINING program.

Yes, if you do the program unduly, you’ll wind up bottom heavy, as what happened to me when I followed Bill Starr’s routines and early part of college. It took so damn long for my upper body to catch up because of that and because of the way my body just so happened to mature. (I think a lot of white guys’ upper bodies take a long friggin’ time to mature. Brent Mikesell once spoke about how his took so long to.)

However, I doubt that such significant muscle gains will happen in three to six months of SS (what it would take to go onto an intermediate routine for figure, fitness, strength and conditioning, PL, BB, or OL).

It would also be extremely helpful to read all of CTs articles for noobs (which no one seems to want to do, nor can people follow directions by ONE person lately) considering figure and BB competitors train pretty much the same with the weights.

HST isn’t a bad program to begin with either, but I believe it requires a bit of reselection of exercises to balance the body out (eg, too much quad dominant stuff in the original program).

honestly, i do not have the book. i got the program off of this website, so idk how close it is to the format provided in the book. the article should still be there when you go to the tnation homepage. it is titled something like are you a novice? the only mentioning of food in the article is to drink a gallon of whole milk a day. i agree that i do not think MR would advise for me to “guzzle a gallon of milk a day” (esp cuz i have a dairy intolerance).

i have researched dietary guidelines for the program and they are pretty vague. just like u said, he stresses eating enough calories. i have decided to not follow any sort of carb cycling, P/C and P/F programs, but rather just eat as much “clean” carbs, protein, and fats as possible that fits in with the macros that i calculated from the article Bricknyce directed me to (thanks!)

another issue i have (i anticipate being made fun of and called a pussy at this point) is fear that i will lose my abs. while i am planning on competing in figure (the october show) do u think i should just focus on getting stronger and not worry about details for the first few months so long as i am eating “clean” and training hard?

i understand that with weight gain i will not have “razor sharp abs” but i am sure i can get them back after i “bulk.” i can knock out push ups and pull ups like no other, but my main compound lifts suck and i feel my physique will benefit from bringing these lifts up, which is what i am hoping to accomplish with SS.

[quote]luvstolift wrote:
honestly, i do not have the book. i got the program off of this website, so idk how close it is to the format provided in the book. the article should still be there when you go to the tnation homepage. it is titled something like are you a novice? the only mentioning of food in the article is to drink a gallon of whole milk a day. i agree that i do not think MR would advise for me to “guzzle a gallon of milk a day” (esp cuz i have a dairy intolerance).

i have researched dietary guidelines for the program and they are pretty vague. just like u said, he stresses eating enough calories. i have decided to not follow any sort of carb cycling, P/C and P/F programs, but rather just eat as much “clean” carbs, protein, and fats as possible that fits in with the macros that i calculated from the article Bricknyce directed me to (thanks!)

another issue i have (i anticipate being made fun of and called a pussy at this point) is fear that i will lose my abs. while i am planning on competing in figure (the october show) do u think i should just focus on getting stronger and not worry about details for the first few months so long as i am eating “clean” and training hard?

i understand that with weight gain i will not have “razor sharp abs” but i am sure i can get them back after i “bulk.” i can knock out push ups and pull ups like no other, but my main compound lifts suck and i feel my physique will benefit from bringing these lifts up, which is what i am hoping to accomplish with SS. [/quote]

You’re welcome.

However, here’s a bright spot:

  1. Get in a fuckin’ gym.
  2. Map out a meal plan, cook, and eat.
  3. Hire a trainer if you’re incapable of applying information you read.

Good luck.

Thanks for the advice and good luck with your training as well.

[quote]luvstolift wrote:
and good luck with your training as well. [/quote]

I lol’ed

OP: I think Bricknyce has given you just about all the info you need to have a good start.

Remember that to do it right you will need to learn to adjust the amount of food you eat based on your needs and current activity level. For example, when I moved to a new flat a couple of months ago and started walking to uni (30-40 minutes) instead of taking the tube every day I had to start eating a bigger breakfast in order not to lose weight. I pretty much ended up adding carbs to that single meal until I stopped losing weight, then added a bit more.

The point is, I did not try to figure out how much I needed to eat from an equation. Instead, I took the amount of food I was eating so far and adjusted it on the fly. It was “let’s add two scoops of oats and see if I’m back on track”, not “this equation tells me I should eat an extra 74.53 grams of carbs, which translates to 121.59 grams of oats”. Observe how your body reacts and adjust things, i.e. don’t do a 180 degree turn every time you’re a bit off or suddenly add/remove 1500 kcal.

Another thing I have noticed that appears to be rarely mentioned is training intensity. I can do the exact same workout twice, with the exact same loading, reps, sets, rest and food during the day, and completely waste my time once and make great progress the second time. The amount of effort you put into your workout is one of the most important factors, if not the most important one, when it comes to progress.

  1. Do what Bricknyce said above
  2. Observe the changes in your body and adjust diet/training accordingly
  3. Put effort into your training

Just my (slightly oversized and not really innovative) 2 cents.

B.