T Nation

USAPL Bans Transgender Women From Competing

#41

I think we both agree that for a sane person, transitioning to win in PLing is not even a consideration.

I think people transition for their own reasons, and want to compete mostly to have fun. There might be a nut job or two who do it to win, but I think they are outliers.

#42

I meant the injury risk and money pit was worth it. Removing my penis… Naw

#43

.

Nicks channel had a poll on this and many people agree.More then 9k people agreed that trans women shouldn’t compete against biological women.

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#44

This is hilarious. You thought he was one of those transsexual high school wrestlers they had in the news.

#45

My takeaway from that is that 4% of respondents are completely insane.

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#46

I find it funny how your number one reason for not getting a sex change is that it would make you weaker. I don’t think you need a reason not to get a sex change.

I think most men would be fine with that because being around those sort of people is an odd situation, but the problem here is that they don’t want any form of discrimination so I could imagine more pushback against a transsexual division than making them compete against men. There’s no legal basis to ban them from competing altogether and they are technically male so the men’s division is the place for them. Women who take testosterone would simply compete in the untested women’s division. Problem solved.

There is no reasonable argument to allow male transsexuals to compete against women more than there is to allow an adult to compete in the subjunior division because they identify as a teenager and have a somewhat youthful appearance. The fact that this is even a debate shows how fucked up this society is.

#47

I’d be interested in a) whether those voting compete in powerlifting b) how many women voted

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#48

Something like 2% of people who comment on YouTube PL-related videos actually lift weights at all.

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#49

Seems to me 2% is a pretty low estimate. I’m sure that more than that actually lift. But I would agree that the number would probably be that or lot lower if you factory in how many have actually done a meet.

#50

Youtube’s audience is roughly 80% male as a whole so I can only imagine that a channel called Nick’s Strength and Power would only scale up on that percentage.

Basically I’m saying I doubt any females voted haha

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#51

Also interesting that it’s times like these that men finally seem to care about women’s sports.

Can anyone who is a fan of powerlifting name 5 active female powerlifters without one of them being Jen Thompson? Without google?

I can’t do that with strongman.

#52

There are some incredibly strong female lifters who get a lot of attention. Stefi Cohen, Amanda Lawrence, Chakera Holcomb are probably the top three and lift more than most guys who are not at an elite level. I had to scratch my head a bit to come up with two more, but there’s Bonica Lough and Kim Walford. I wouldn’t say that I’m a fan of female powerlifting, mostly I watch some of their videos to motivate me to squat and deadlift more.

How many girls actually compete in strongman? The female side of the sport seems rather obscure.

#53

Tons. There are even women’s only competitions that are typically pretty full. CA’s strongest woman is in it’s third year, and constantly runs huge.

#54

Well I guess they don’t get much attention, I never hear anything about them. I don’t follow strongman, I only see some clips of the top guys now and then but as for the females I can only recall ever hearing of two actually competing. There was a girl who was sponsored by EliteFTS and there is one who Josh Bryant coaches, aside from those two I honestly hear nothing at all about female strongman competitors.

Also, I don’t really hear much about any of the guys in lower weight classes. For a while I was under the impression that there were no weight classes (which is obviously not the case) and it was all about being the strongest regardless of size. WSM makes international news headlines but the average person knows nothing about the rest of you guys.

#55

Most likely this is a result of there being professional and amatuer strongman. As far as I know, there is no professsional league for women. Powerlifting doesn’t have this to contend with.

#56

That would explain it, I was not aware of that.

In PL there are pro and amateur divisions in some feds but all that means is that the amateur division is drug-tested. At the same time, most of the big meets that offer cash prizes (like the US open) are untested. I was told that winners don’t use drugs, it was a lie.

#57

Not gonna make a new thread for this because I think many have made it clear that they are of the opinion that transgender females i.e. M>F competing against born females is unfair.

I’ll just share this story because as discussed above if rules are not amended or inclusivity prioritised over all else in sport then more and more transgender females will be gaining an unfair advantage in sport.

Here we have two female transgender athletes beating a field of born females coming in 1st and 2nd respectively.

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#58

So the discussion now becomes one of solutions or steps to take:

I think it really needs to be established beyond a reasonable doubt that being born a male and developing, especially going through puberty, as a male conveys substantial enough of a benefit to sport performance as to be an unfair advantage. And that hormone therapy does not on the balance of things negate this.

I haven’t looked it up myself but I wouldn’t be surprised that the current body of research in relevant fields already supports this. Likely too would experts in relevant fields say so unless they fear triggering some people.

I’ve seen interviews where everyone from coaches to the transgender athletes themselves have blatantly ignored the above topic. IMO if they really want to compete they have to address the counterpoints. There is usually little useful discussion to be had: transgender athletes talking about how good it feels accepted or how bad it feels not to be and many on the other side who completely dismiss transgenders are mentally ill.

Since the unfair advantage probably won’t be disproven it’ll come down to a matter of inclusivity vs fairness in sport and I guess people are going to have to start deciding where they draw the line. Thnx USAPL for at least taking a reasoned stand.

End rant lol

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#59

They could just have people who want to compete in the Open section. So if the lifters select Open then they should compete vs both Male/ Female.

#60

I wasn’t aware that there was any doubt to that at all. The new liberal opinion seems to be that if you say you are male, female, or whatever other “gender” on a list of hundreds then it’s true because you say it is so. Testosterone causes permanent changes to the body, it’s an unquestionable fact.

It makes me wonder, how many male transsexuals are actually competing in women’s sports? Pretty much all the ones I hear about are winning, like the two you mentioned, there was one in weightlifting, one in wrestling, even one guy in MMA. As the transsexual thing becomes more popular there will soon be no room for actual women in women’s sports.

What about men who have low testosterone/high estrogen but still behave and dress like men? Should they be allowed to compete against women? Maybe rather than male/female divisions it should be based on testosterone levels - low T division, normal male division, high T division. If they have to dress all girly and wear makeup and stuff then isn’t that just reinforcing social constructs and stereotypes?