USA and Paganism?

[quote]treco wrote:
Most of your replies are enlightened, this one is incorrect,however. There just happens to be a large number of S. Baptists in the South. [/quote]

Right. Just like there just happens to be mainly redneck white guys under the Klan hoods.

[quote]simon-hecubus wrote:
treco wrote:
Most of your replies are enlightened, this one is incorrect,however. There just happens to be a large number of S. Baptists in the South.

Right. Just like there just happens to be mainly redneck white guys under the Klan hoods.[/quote]

You forgot “scared” in that “redneck white guys” part. LOL

[quote]kroby wrote:
simon-hecubus wrote:
treco wrote:
Most of your replies are enlightened, this one is incorrect,however. There just happens to be a large number of S. Baptists in the South.

Right. Just like there just happens to be mainly redneck white guys under the Klan hoods.

You forgot “scared” in that “redneck white guys” part. LOL[/quote]

and “little-dicked”

[quote]kroby wrote:
simon-hecubus wrote:
treco wrote:
Most of your replies are enlightened, this one is incorrect,however. There just happens to be a large number of S. Baptists in the South.

Right. Just like there just happens to be mainly redneck white guys under the Klan hoods.

You forgot “scared” in that “redneck white guys” part. LOL[/quote]

oh wow, I misread that for a second and thought it said “sacred”.

[quote]kroby wrote:
simon-hecubus wrote:
treco wrote:
Most of your replies are enlightened, this one is incorrect,however. There just happens to be a large number of S. Baptists in the South.

Right. Just like there just happens to be mainly redneck white guys under the Klan hoods.

You forgot “scared” in that “redneck white guys” part. LOL[/quote]

What do you believe happens after a person dies? Do you think we get our 70 years here and that is all?

[quote]treco wrote:
kroby wrote:
simon-hecubus wrote:
treco wrote:
Most of your replies are enlightened, this one is incorrect,however. There just happens to be a large number of S. Baptists in the South.

Right. Just like there just happens to be mainly redneck white guys under the Klan hoods.

You forgot “scared” in that “redneck white guys” part. LOL

What do you believe happens after a person dies? Do you think we get our 70 years here and that is all?[/quote]

Bingo!

[quote]kroby wrote:
Christianity is a sham perpetrated on the mind-numb masses for no other reason than to subjugate them. Paganism is at least, original. That America practices the rites of Paganism and doesn’t even know it… priceless hypocricy. The only way Christianity could supplant Paganism was to obfuscate their holy days with their own holy days.[/quote]

In the USA we only persecute Christians. In fact Christianity is the only religion people can openly mock without being accused of “hate-mongering” or being “intolerant”.

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

In the Bible Belt, you are free to practice whatever religion you want as long as it’s Christian. And not just any form of Christianity - it must be fundamentalist Southern Baptist or Pentecostal. Episcopalians, Methodists, and even Catholics need not apply.[/quote]

Nope. There isn’t a persecuted Episcopalian, Methodist, or Catholic in the so-called Bible Belt. Non-Baptist churches don’t get burned down, and one of the most beautiful churches I have ever seen - an Eastern Orthodox - was located in the Buckle of the Bible Belt.

Southern Baptists might be the dominant denomination, but your comment was both erroneous and silly.

[quote]cadav wrote:
Hi,
I’m wondering which is the common USA thinking about paganism movements and pagan religions…

thanks for the feedback ;)[/quote]

Paganism refers to the belief in anything but God. Whereas an Agnostic does not believe in God a Pagan puts their faith in something else.

Pagan translated literally means “country person”. This term was typically used to describe ancient rurual people who had not heard about Christianity. It was origionally used as a degrogatory term to describe someone who was uneducated.

You don’t have to be a witch or worship satan to be considered a pagan. You can actually worship anything but God. You could worship your last dump and be considered a pagan.

Personally I don’t see much value to being a pagan. Either you believe in God or you don’t. What value would there be worshiping something else like the sun, moon, stars, etc.

Besides if you associate paganism with worshiping the devil then you must lend some credence to the Bible because it validates satans existance and his position relative to God. Based on the Bible’s record one can only conclude that paganism is a dead end street since it states satan’s fate is to be everlasting destruction.

Has anyone seen the Dragnet movie with Dan Akroyd? Well, if you haven’t, you really should. Pagans…

[quote]cadav wrote:
Jimfound wrote:

Do you care to elaborate on what you call the “double face of freedom and biggotry”?

Not to hijack the thread but…

Sure, but first i want to apology.
Because what i “know” or “think to know” about USA came to me from TNation Forum, books, movie, documentary and only spare “real” people i have known cause of my work or interest. So i believe that my point of view is “biased”…

However I see the USA as the nation of freedom. Where a Man can do its path. Where a lot of people go to have the base to build their idea…

Great opportunity for the people who deserve.

But I also see a “strange” behaviour “inside” the USA… The blindness versus who is really different. “A one solution for every problem” approach.

I don’t know… a kind of “rigidity” (sp?) on social behaviour (for example the levinsky “problem” in Italy will never be a problem…)

And also a “deep” religiosity… too much deep for a country as big and “free” as USA…

[/quote]

Apology accepted.

I am not sure what the Levinsky problem is so I can’t comment on that right now. The bottom line is I think there are stupid people every where you go. With a large and diverse population (as in the USA) you are going to have people on both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between. Hopefully the number of people on the far ends of that spectrum will decrease as evolution takes its course.

I’m posting on this thread because blah blah blah blah christians blah blah pagan holidays blah cheeseburgers blah blah blah. So in short, I have just saved the world and every soul upon it. I’m right. You’re wrong. Trust me. Time for a cat nap.

[quote]treco wrote:

What do you believe happens after a person dies? Do you think we get our 70 years here and that is all?[/quote]

He he. I got more than 70 years. Guaranteed. Or less, if it’s not health related. Hell, I was sure to not make it to 30 when I was 18.

In the end, I believe my life essence returns to where the largest gravitational pull exists… that of other collective life essences. Wait, is this Communism? Maybe a Cabal. Aw, crap. I’m going to Crom’s Mountain, where he’ll ask me the riddle of steel.

[quote]ConanSpeaks wrote:
Paganism refers to the belief in anything but God. Whereas an Agnostic does not believe in God a Pagan puts their faith in something else.
[/quote]
believe me, i know what pagan means :wink:

here you commit an error.
A pagan does not only worship the sun.

(EDIT ADDED AFTER cap’nsalty REPLY TO TRY TO BETTER DESCRIBE MY EXAMPLE, SORRY FOR CRAPPY ENGLISH…)

A pagan worships (for example, cause there are plenty of different pagan cults) spirits or gods…

for example the cult of Ares, or Zeus are pagan religions… As the animistic cult of nature… or the wicca or the native american pantheon of gods…

I don’t worship the devil, but you have o know that devil is not a creation of bible… it exist before it… Devil has many names and you can find it in the acient sumeric (sp?) religion for example…

Satan is the “devil” of the bible…

I’m not a frequent poster on this board, but I do want to reply to some of the opinions that are being expressed in this thread.

First, the assertion that the gods of polytheistic paganism are the same as the monotheistic God of the Judeo-Christian tradition (and even the Muslim faith) is simply false. Worshipping the many gods of the natural world (paganism) is not the same as worshipping the God that created the natural world (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam). Just because the God/gods worshipped by Jews, Christians, Muslims, and pagans is/are spiritual beings does not mean that they are all the same. That is like saying that humans and televisions are the same thing because both are composed of the same raw materials.

Second, the statement that Christianity is for the “mind-numb masses” is pretty laughable. Kroby, I don’t know where you came up with this idea or what evidence you have to support it, so I really don’t know where to begin. Without offering any support for your opinion, you come off as being prejudiced against Christians. In fact, you are acting somewhat like the KKK members that you rightly criticize. I find it somewhat ironic that you then go on to talk about “priceless hypocrisy.”
To deal with the actual issue of Christianity subjugating its followers, I have to admit that I agree.

However, I agree for a completely different reason. Kroby seems to believe that Christians are subjugated to a lie for the sake of subjugation. I believe that Christians are subjugated to a truth (in fact, the truth) for their own good. To see which opinion is right, it’s important to ask the right questions and objectively consider the evidence. If (as we both agree) that Christianity rules the lives of its followers, the obvious question is why. Subjugation for the sake of subjugation just doesn’t make any sense to me. Maybe I’m too much of a rationalist, but I would like to have some justification for that subjugation. One may say that church leaders are just power-hungry narcissists, but that opinion is again not based in reality.

In fact, the best church leaders devote their lives to serving their followers. There are, of course, exceptions who become leaders where the religion is all a ploy to increase their power, but those “leaders” are generally rejected by the church as imposters.

On another point, there seems to be an idea that submission to anything other than ourselves is somehow stupid and, ultimately, dehumanizing. I think the thought of Nietzsche is at its root. Again, look at the evidence. Take the saints of Christianity, for example. Read about their lives and decide for yourself whether they were fulfilling and enjoyable. Or, heck, read about the life of Jesus. Then read about the life of Nietzsche and consider his mental collapse. You may say I’m cherry-picking my examples. I agree.

To really test the validity of any system of thought, it is best to consider its closest followers. And let’s be honest, people, the evidence shows that the submission of Christians is not at all idiotic or dehumanizing.
Well, I know I’ve strayed from the original intent of this thread, but I suppose that’s what happens when a question on paganism in America is used as an excuse to bash Christianity. There is much more to say of Christianity, paganism, and how they play into American culture, which is why I’m looking forward to reading the other opinions in this thread. Thanks for the chance to give my two cents.

Sorry cadav, but uhh…you’re wrong. You can use the term pagan however you want, but the commonly accepted definition is anyone who worships something other than the Christian God (for example the sun, Ares, a piece of dirt, etc).

I’m not sure that anything meaningful could be said about so broad a subject, besides kneejerk reactions like “I believe that everyone should be able to do whatever they want” or “Religious people are idiots”. I don’t see this discussion going anywhere interesting.

[quote]cadav wrote:
Jimfound wrote:

Do you care to elaborate on what you call the “double face of freedom and biggotry”?

Not to hijack the thread but…

Sure, but first i want to apology.
Because what i “know” or “think to know” about USA came to me from TNation Forum, books, movie, documentary and only spare “real” people i have known cause of my work or interest. So i believe that my point of view is “biased”…

However I see the USA as the nation of freedom. Where a Man can do its path. Where a lot of people go to have the base to build their idea…

Great opportunity for the people who deserve.

But I also see a “strange” behaviour “inside” the USA… The blindness versus who is really different. “A one solution for every problem” approach.

I don’t know… a kind of “rigidity” (sp?) on social behaviour (for example the levinsky “problem” in Italy will never be a problem…)

And also a “deep” religiosity… too much deep for a country as big and “free” as USA…

[/quote]
In a country of 300,000,000 people you’re going to find a lot of different types. In fact, you’re going to find all kinds of people here. But ultimately, America is about freedom. Because guess what, all those super-religous people you are referring to have absolutely zero affect on my life. Period.

In my office we have a lady who is a Wiccan, an Evangelical Protestant, a harcore Catholic, an atheist, and a Jewish person, a Mormon. It’s not a problem. We all kid around. End of story.
Lewinsky–that’s just politics. When one party has the Presidency and the other has Congress they always find a big scandal. If the Democrats get Congress they’ll go after Bush.
Hope this helps.

I’ve known pagans and heathens and attended many heathen functions as well as studying, researching and done some “anthropology” of modern heathenism.
The first thing to keep in mind is something you have already touched on: the innate conservative christian mindset is the dominate culture here in the U.S… As a result of this, any revived religion, whether pagan or heathen, is immediately viewed with suspicion and even fear and distrust by the majority of people here.

Paganism in the U.S. is generally used to describe wiccans and heathenism is used to describe those of the revived faith(s) of northern Europe. Both terms actually mean the same thing of course: “country”/peasant religion instead of “city” folk religion.

[quote]thor wrote:
In the USA we only persecute Christians. In fact Christianity is the only religion people can openly mock without being accused of “hate-mongering” or being “intolerant”.[/quote]

Oh Jesus H! I am so sick of that fucking garbage.

The main reason many Christians are mocked or ridiculed is that they insist on forcing their belief systems on everyone else.

If it were up to Christians, our kids would be growing up even more ignorant than they are now, back-alley abortions would be ruining young girls for good or killing them, and gays would be living on an island like lepers.

[quote]thor wrote:
In the USA we only persecute Christians. In fact Christianity is the only religion people can openly mock without being accused of “hate-mongering” or being “intolerant”. [/quote]

Everyone together now: Awwwwwww…

Hate to tell you, but “mocking” is not the same as “persecuting”. No one is stopping Christians from worshipping in their homes or churches. No one is torturing them until they denounce their religion, or burning them alive for the books they read. These things could be called persecution, and historically, Christians are damn good at all of them.

“We can’t set up a nativity scene on public property! Our church yard isn’t good enough! We’re being persecuted!”

“They want to take “God” out of the Pledge of Allegiance (even though we crammed it in there 60 years after it was written)! We’re being persecuted!”

Go tell a Holocaust survivor how “persecuted” Christians are in the U.S. See if they don’t 1)laugh or 2)want to kick your ass.

As far as openly mocking Christianity, hell, after 1600 years of brutal oppression, the slaughter of millions, the torture/ruin of millions more, and setting science back about a millenia, I think verbal jabs are a pretty light sentence. It’s kind of like allowing Ted Bundy to remain free on the condition that every once in awhile, someone would make fun of him in public.