T Nation

USA: 1776 - 2009

Well, looks like amnesty is one of the Democrats (and McCain’s) first priorities in 2009. Just what the US needs right now, more non-taxpayers!

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/11/reid_comprehensive_immigration_1.asp

In the 1986 amnesty, we were told 1 million would get a break, but it extended to 6 million. Now that we have at least 20 million here illegally, what should we expect this time around, 100 million?

Will they get all those public works jobs Obama’s going to create?

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Well, looks like amnesty is one of the Democrats (and McCain’s) first priorities in 2009. Just what the US needs right now, more non-taxpayers!

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/11/reid_comprehensive_immigration_1.asp

In the 1986 amnesty, we were told 1 million would get a break, but it extended to 6 million. Now that we have at least 20 million here illegally, what should we expect this time around, 100 million? [/quote]

The trouble with having so many immigrants is that most have a totally different experience with government. They tend to think of government as some sort of robber-gang, and voting is how you get the gang to rob for you. Capitalism won’t last long under the voting auspices of people who list a park bench as their home address.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Will they get all those public works jobs Obama’s going to create?[/quote]

Well, they got all of the construction jobs during the housing boom, so I guess you have your answer.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Sloth wrote:

Well, they got ALL of the construction jobs during the housing boom. [/quote]

I’d like to see some evidence backing this statement.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
more non-taxpayers![/quote]

They pay ZERO taxes? not even sales tax where it applies? no alcohol or tobacco taxes? no stamp taxes?

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Well, looks like amnesty is one of the Democrats (and McCain’s) first priorities in 2009. Just what the US needs right now, more non-taxpayers!

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/11/reid_comprehensive_immigration_1.asp

In the 1986 amnesty, we were told 1 million would get a break, but it extended to 6 million. Now that we have at least 20 million here illegally, what should we expect this time around, 100 million?

The trouble with having so many immigrants is that most have a totally different experience with government. They tend to think of government as some sort of robber-gang, and voting is how you get the gang to rob for you. Capitalism won’t last long under the voting auspices of people who list a park bench as their home address.

[/quote]

well yea what did you expect? grow up with a corrupt autocratic government and you’d probably have little faith in any government. ESPECIALLY, one this responsible for corrupting your native government. We only have ourselves to blame.

and your robber gang story is very off. Do you really think that the poor and exploited (our immigrants)are given any benefits by people they elect (if theres more than 1 person on the ballot)?

you have a very elementary knowledge base of history and current events outside the US.

I think its pathetic that an illegal pregnant woman can have a free child birth at a hospital, while a female citizen has to pay. Thats just a slap in the face.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I think its pathetic that an illegal pregnant woman can have a free child birth at a hospital, while a female citizen has to pay. Thats just a slap in the face.[/quote]

yea god forbid we live in a country that shows compassion to those in need.

whats really pathetic is so many people take their own luxury for granted.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I think its pathetic that an illegal pregnant woman can have a free child birth at a hospital, while a female citizen has to pay. Thats just a slap in the face.[/quote]

The female citizen with no insurance doesn’t pay. That’s a slap, too.

[quote]PB-Crawl wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
I think its pathetic that an illegal pregnant woman can have a free child birth at a hospital, while a female citizen has to pay. Thats just a slap in the face.

yea god forbid we live in a country that shows compassion to those in need.

whats really pathetic is so many people take their own luxury for granted.
[/quote]

This creates animosity between two sets of individuals when one receives free services for not being in the nation legally while the other, attempting to follow the given rules, is punished with being forced to pay his/her own way. Worse, the latter is forced to subsidize those that are not.

It is not “compassionate” to reward those who in essence commit theft by utilizing the government-enforced rules to confiscate the hard-earned income of others for their benefit. The illegal immigrants entered this country without proper authorization (under the circumstances) and thus should be willing to risk not receiving the risk that they brought upon themselves.

Should it be considered “compassionate” if an individual entered your home and took what he required without your consent because it was “needed?” If so, then almost any form of theft could be construed as “compassionate” so long as it benefits the thief for the purposes of survival or even convenience. The latter applies in this case.

[quote]PB-Crawl wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
I think its pathetic that an illegal pregnant woman can have a free child birth at a hospital, while a female citizen has to pay. Thats just a slap in the face.

yea god forbid we live in a country that shows compassion to those in need.

whats really pathetic is so many people take their own luxury for granted.
[/quote]

People get these “luxuries” because they work for them. That statement you made shows just whats wrong with you bleeding heart liberal bumble-fux.

Healthcare is a product not a right or a privilege

ZOMG!

[quote]cloakmanor wrote:
PB-Crawl wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
I think its pathetic that an illegal pregnant woman can have a free child birth at a hospital, while a female citizen has to pay. Thats just a slap in the face.

yea god forbid we live in a country that shows compassion to those in need.

whats really pathetic is so many people take their own luxury for granted.

This creates animosity between two sets of individuals when one receives free services for not being in the nation legally while the other, attempting to follow the given rules, is punished with being forced to pay his/her own way. Worse, the latter is forced to subsidize those that are not.

It is not “compassionate” to reward those who in essence commit theft by utilizing the government-enforced rules to confiscate the hard-earned income of others for their benefit. The illegal immigrants entered this country without proper authorization (under the circumstances) and thus should be willing to risk not receiving the risk that they brought upon themselves.

Should it be considered “compassionate” if an individual entered your home and took what he required without your consent because it was “needed?” If so, then almost any form of theft could be construed as “compassionate” so long as it benefits the thief for the purposes of survival or even convenience. The latter applies in this case.[/quote]

Glad to see someone who gets it. Where’s all the sobbing compassion for the people who actually pay the taxes to provide ‘compassionate’ benefits?

What happens if the people who decide that enough is enough and they don’t want to provide any more free benefits? That’s when our compassionate libs come with their IRS agent-thugs and U.S. marshalls to force you to pay.

[quote]PB-Crawl wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
I think its pathetic that an illegal pregnant woman can have a free child birth at a hospital, while a female citizen has to pay. Thats just a slap in the face.

yea god forbid we live in a country that shows compassion to those in need.

whats really pathetic is so many people take their own luxury for granted.
[/quote]

I haven’t seen a statement this ridiculous in a while. I worked my ass off my whole life, all the way from not a damn thing to own my house, 3 cars and receive my free health benefits provided by my employer.

Am I really supposed to give a shit about the person who hopped a fence to have their baby here on my medicaid dollar?

I think you have the taking it for granted wrong also there friend. Wouldn’t you say all these illegals are taking our system for granted. They just assume that it’s all free here never once thinking that the tax paying citizens are footing their bill.

As for your stupid fucking comment on sales, alcohol and tobacco tax. Do you think that what they pay in sales tax to the STATE government is anywhere near what someone pays in FEDERAL income tax, medicaid and ss? Do you think ten years of sales tax equals what I pay in one year? Since they work under the table while here yet collect medicaid and welfare wouldn’t you say they are taking the US citizen for granted, hell even exploiting them? NAH, they must just want some compassion right?

That is exactly why America needs to go to a flat federal sales tax. Then it won’t matter if you are an illegal or not as far as taxes go. The more you buy the more taxes you pay no matter how you got paid. Plus for anyone that is against big government the IRS could be cut at least in half. You also wouldn’t have to worry about filing in April.

[quote]snipeout wrote:

Am I really supposed to give a shit about the person who hopped a fence to have their baby here on my medicaid dollar?

[/quote]

No, not all of us are christians/religious, so I can accept that you don’t care for those less fortunate than you.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
That is exactly why America needs to go to a flat federal sales tax. Then it won’t matter if you are an illegal or not as far as taxes go. The more you buy the more taxes you pay no matter how you got paid. Plus for anyone that is against big government the IRS could be cut at least in half. You also wouldn’t have to worry about filing in April. [/quote]

theoretically, I think a flat tax is a great idea. Realistically, I don’t know if it would work. As people on here have pointed out so often, the top 5-20% currently pay much more in taxes than others…if we went to a flat tax, that tax would have to be high enough to account for the money we get from that top 5%… in other words, it would be so high as to make life quite difficult (re: impossible) for lower classes. Now we could offer some sort of “tax break” for these lower classes, as we currently do…but then don’t we have the same problems as the current system?

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
snipeout wrote:

Am I really supposed to give a shit about the person who hopped a fence to have their baby here on my medicaid dollar?

No, not all of us are christians/religious, so I can accept that you don’t care for those less fortunate than you. [/quote]

Why would you bring up religion? Trolling? I’ll retort.

Yeah, well I’m religious, so I have a soul.

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
That is exactly why America needs to go to a flat federal sales tax. Then it won’t matter if you are an illegal or not as far as taxes go. The more you buy the more taxes you pay no matter how you got paid. Plus for anyone that is against big government the IRS could be cut at least in half. You also wouldn’t have to worry about filing in April.

theoretically, I think a flat tax is a great idea. Realistically, I don’t know if it would work. As people on here have pointed out so often, the top 5-20% currently pay much more in taxes than others…if we went to a flat tax, that tax would have to be high enough to account for the money we get from that top 5%… in other words, it would be so high as to make life quite difficult (re: impossible) for lower classes. Now we could offer some sort of “tax break” for these lower classes, as we currently do…but then don’t we have the same problems as the current system? [/quote]

But there would be millions of more people to pay the taxes.

It worked for decades federally. It still works for several states.

Edit: Not to mention eliminating tons of government waste in the for of the tax codes and IRS. There would be no way for rich people to find loopholes and dodge taxes with fancy lawyers either.