T Nation

US Will Dominate World Weightlifting

[quote]GMH454 wrote:
conorh wrote:
Pinto wrote:

One thing I notice about weightlifting is that it does not seem to attract a lot of general ironheads.

I’ve never really been around competitive oly lifters, but I’ve noticed a similar phenomena in the wannabe oly lifters in the gym. It seems like I see guys who are trying to snatch or clean and they can’t deadlift, press, squat, row, chin, etc.

There are two things here, the first is that oly wl, is in decline. Now that the eastern block machine has been disassembled and the people brought up by it retired and spread throughout the world. The 76 OG was won with a C & J of 255 (shoot me if I’m wrong) and the super WR has not been equalled since the late 80’s.

The reduction in standard caused by better drug testing (although there has been an explosion in unrestrained GH use in sprinting) and the end of the soviets lead them to reinvent weight classes, just so that the public and media would see WRs again not stagnation.

America has stagnated in a sport that is stagnating.

Now regarding the quote above, weightlifting was not always fringe. Back in the 60’s Louis Martin & Bill March won national & international bbing comps, Vern Weaver Mr A 1964 had a 370 C & J Ralph Kroger from So Cal had a 270 snatch plus other respectable lifts.

If you wanted to have creditablity in the weight room back in the 60s you had to have a decent Clean and a press meant something.

Powerlifting attracted many of weightlifting’s possible devotees, but the lack of attraction of OL to the public has been a problem since the early 70’s. Ken Patera a very good shotputter, was the best US lifter in 1971. WR shot holder Feurbach got of a plane from Europe, and got 2nd at the US nats, in 1973 just for fun, Bruce Whilhelm, went from a guy who could not medal at the US T & F nats in shot to the best US super.

Napier an ex discus thrower, who realised his height was against him was a US champ, and The best shot put jr in around 73-74 turned up and won the US jrs, doing power snatches and power cleans, beating the kids groomed by the US camps who never went anywhere.

Yep think OLs problems are cultural, but the buzz “olympic” and the eletism that the word conjures has definitely given it traction. Lots of interest, just hope you guys can turn it into something other than people posting U-Tube videos of their 150lb squat cleans.

Actually I would go as far as saying if you are not pulling hard correctly by 21, your chances of success are next to nothing, no matter what they do. It is a strength sport, not ballet.[/quote]

great post.

all i have to say is not too long ago, a USWA cert coach was charging nearly $500 per person for a weekend seminar at local crossfit facility. 500 clams for a weekend with coach who was cert from an organization that has not produce athletes that are competitive at an international level in how many decades???

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
GMH454 wrote:
conorh wrote:
Pinto wrote:

One thing I notice about weightlifting is that it does not seem to attract a lot of general ironheads.

I’ve never really been around competitive oly lifters, but I’ve noticed a similar phenomena in the wannabe oly lifters in the gym. It seems like I see guys who are trying to snatch or clean and they can’t deadlift, press, squat, row, chin, etc.

There are two things here, the first is that oly wl, is in decline. Now that the eastern block machine has been disassembled and the people brought up by it retired and spread throughout the world. The 76 OG was won with a C & J of 255 (shoot me if I’m wrong) and the super WR has not been equalled since the late 80’s.

The reduction in standard caused by better drug testing (although there has been an explosion in unrestrained GH use in sprinting) and the end of the soviets lead them to reinvent weight classes, just so that the public and media would see WRs again not stagnation.

America has stagnated in a sport that is stagnating.

Now regarding the quote above, weightlifting was not always fringe. Back in the 60’s Louis Martin & Bill March won national & international bbing comps, Vern Weaver Mr A 1964 had a 370 C & J Ralph Kroger from So Cal had a 270 snatch plus other respectable lifts.

If you wanted to have creditablity in the weight room back in the 60s you had to have a decent Clean and a press meant something.

Powerlifting attracted many of weightlifting’s possible devotees, but the lack of attraction of OL to the public has been a problem since the early 70’s. Ken Patera a very good shotputter, was the best US lifter in 1971. WR shot holder Feurbach got of a plane from Europe, and got 2nd at the US nats, in 1973 just for fun, Bruce Whilhelm, went from a guy who could not medal at the US T & F nats in shot to the best US super.

Napier an ex discus thrower, who realised his height was against him was a US champ, and The best shot put jr in around 73-74 turned up and won the US jrs, doing power snatches and power cleans, beating the kids groomed by the US camps who never went anywhere.

Yep think OLs problems are cultural, but the buzz “olympic” and the eletism that the word conjures has definitely given it traction. Lots of interest, just hope you guys can turn it into something other than people posting U-Tube videos of their 150lb squat cleans.

Actually I would go as far as saying if you are not pulling hard correctly by 21, your chances of success are next to nothing, no matter what they do. It is a strength sport, not ballet.

great post.

all i have to say is not too long ago, a USWA cert coach was charging nearly $500 per person for a weekend seminar at local crossfit facility. 500 clams for a weekend with coach who was cert from an organization that has not produce athletes that are competitive at an international level in how many decades???
[/quote]

Insane. And what were the coaches qualifications aside from the USAW certification? I’d be curious to know. The reason being that 95% of all the lifters I know, have trained with or competed against are also ‘certified USAW coaches’. Many got their coaching credential shortly after joining USAW (you must be a member to compete) and have little experience or knowledge aside from their own training and what they had to learn in order to “pass the test”. Rare is the individual who has knowledge AND the ability to teach. In fact, I can count those individuals on one hand.

I’m from an area in which O-lifting is controlled and dominated by a prominent club. They always have a full roster of lifters, few of quality, most come and go (paying their dues long after they “retire”). The “coaches” teach the same old, tired USAW nonsense and produce ZERO lifters of national, much less international, import. In training there for a few weeks I witnessed one consistent theme: Lifters taking rep after rep with sub-maximal loads, loads in the 50%-60% neighborhood. Many of these lifters were not beginners. This was their training. Each lifter was hovered over by a coach who hyper-critiqued each lift. Then would come pulls and squats, again done with sub-maximal loads, ever pushing weights (in order to avoid injury).

I came from a gym across town. Three lifters and a ‘coach’ (a former national champion who was NOT USAW certified and had lifted with some of the best lifters of all time). His philosopy is simple: Teach proper technique, allow the lifter to adapt that basic technique in a way that suits him/her, and get the lifter as strong as possible - especially in the back squat.

Consequently, our three lifters dominated the club’s lifters year in, year out. From time to time we’d train at their club. We’d watch as 94Kkg male lifters back squated 120kg. for doubles and they’d watch as our 63kg female did likewise with 130kg. Then they’d whipsper to anyone would listen that the whole lot of us were on steroids.

USAW is a poisoned atmosphere. Top to bottom. It needs to die, stay dead for a decade to allow all the disease to rot away, they be re-born as something totally new, run by new people with good ideas and a passion for sport instead of a passion to advance their own agenda and name.

[quote]ninearms wrote:
As Dr Manhattan said, the 6 for 6 thing is a bogus argument. Check the results for the Worlds and Euros over the last 5 years, and look at what the eventual gold medalists did. Almost always 5/6 minimum. It’s very rare that someone medals at that level by going 2/6. You’d be lucky to make the top 10 at that rate.[/quote]

5 out of 6 minimum is pushing it. 4 out of 6? Yeah. The point is that these lifters do not set out to hit 6 for 6. They set out a plan to get to a certain weight that enable them to PR and/or win. I’ve trained in China and in Poland. Rarely did I hear talk of going 6 for 6 in terms of it being a goal for the meet. I heard them talking about the plan.

About how this lift in warmups would enable this lift on the platform that would lead to this jump and that would lead to this jump, how the size of the jump would depend on the lifers position, how they would take the jump after a miss as well as after a good lift.

American lifters and coaches love going six for six. Problem is that, most of the time, six for six means taking lifts you make in the gym week in and week out. Of course, it doesn’t really matter, does it? Six for six usually equates to 15th place for American’s so what are we talking about here?

A great example was Dimas vs. Huster. I spoke with Huster once and he complained that he’d go 6 for 6 and hit two or three PRs along the way. Dimas would struggle to make 2 or 3 lifts, only to pop PRs in both lifts and win the meet. That’s greatness and that’s intestinal fortitude.

Our lifters don’t have it because our coaches don’t allow them to develop in the gym. You gain balls by taking big weights in the gym. You don’t fear the weight, you crush it! That’s what lifters like Dimas do. They have something in reserve for those big weights. It’s an attitude that you must be born with, I know that. But it also has to trained. And our coaches simply do not allow it.

[quote]ProwlCat wrote:

Insane. And what were the coaches qualifications aside from the USAW certification? I’d be curious to know. The reason being that 95% of all the lifters I know, have trained with or competed against are also ‘certified USAW coaches’. Many got their coaching credential shortly after joining USAW (you must be a member to compete) and have little experience or knowledge aside from their own training and what they had to learn in order to “pass the test”. Rare is the individual who has knowledge AND the ability to teach. In fact, I can count those individuals on one hand.

I’m from an area in which O-lifting is controlled and dominated by a prominent club. They always have a full roster of lifters, few of quality, most come and go (paying their dues long after they “retire”). The “coaches” teach the same old, tired USAW nonsense and produce ZERO lifters of national, much less international, import. In training there for a few weeks I witnessed one consistent theme: Lifters taking rep after rep with sub-maximal loads, loads in the 50%-60% neighborhood. Many of these lifters were not beginners. This was their training. Each lifter was hovered over by a coach who hyper-critiqued each lift. Then would come pulls and squats, again done with sub-maximal loads, ever pushing weights (in order to avoid injury).

I came from a gym across town. Three lifters and a ‘coach’ (a former national champion who was NOT USAW certified and had lifted with some of the best lifters of all time). His philosopy is simple: Teach proper technique, allow the lifter to adapt that basic technique in a way that suits him/her, and get the lifter as strong as possible - especially in the back squat.

Consequently, our three lifters dominated the club’s lifters year in, year out. From time to time we’d train at their club. We’d watch as 94Kkg male lifters back squated 120kg. for doubles and they’d watch as our 63kg female did likewise with 130kg. Then they’d whipsper to anyone would listen that the whole lot of us were on steroids.

USAW is a poisoned atmosphere. Top to bottom. It needs to die, stay dead for a decade to allow all the disease to rot away, they be re-born as something totally new, run by new people with good ideas and a passion for sport instead of a passion to advance their own agenda and name. [/quote]

I really don’t get a lot of what you are writing. Do you think its a bad thing that everyone who coaches someone gets encouraged to have at least some formal training in coaching (i.e. a club coach course)? Yes, that course is fairly minimal, but it imparts basic knowledge to someone so that they can spread the sport! This sport is small - we need more people with at least a basic level of understanding of coaching! The club coach level means VERY little… I dont know why you are inflating it. To move to ANY other level, you have to produce national athletes. The club coach course is just there to get people started in coaching.

Your example of the club in your city is weird. I’ve never been to/heard of any club that trains like that - in fact, I would say that too many people in this country do the exact opposite: they take high percentage lifts every time they are lifting and miss tons of them. In the end, having a thought-out program is necessary.

As far as coaches producing 0 national lifters… a lot that has to do with the athlete, too. Don’t kid yourself - its not an easy task to get to the national level even with a good coach. Especially if you are in one of the more competitive classes that a lot of other athletes fall into. It really sounds like that club is just not a good club.

what does 6 for 6 or 2/6 mean? I tried using search but putting in numbers in google and weightlifting comes up with a million things primarily sets and reps.

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
what does 6 for 6 or 2/6 mean? I tried using search but putting in numbers in google and weightlifting comes up with a million things primarily sets and reps.[/quote]

number of completed attempts out of total number of attempts

[quote]Dr. Manhattan wrote:
ProwlCat wrote:

Insane. And what were the coaches qualifications aside from the USAW certification? I’d be curious to know. The reason being that 95% of all the lifters I know, have trained with or competed against are also ‘certified USAW coaches’. Many got their coaching credential shortly after joining USAW (you must be a member to compete) and have little experience or knowledge aside from their own training and what they had to learn in order to “pass the test”. Rare is the individual who has knowledge AND the ability to teach. In fact, I can count those individuals on one hand.

I’m from an area in which O-lifting is controlled and dominated by a prominent club. They always have a full roster of lifters, few of quality, most come and go (paying their dues long after they “retire”). The “coaches” teach the same old, tired USAW nonsense and produce ZERO lifters of national, much less international, import. In training there for a few weeks I witnessed one consistent theme: Lifters taking rep after rep with sub-maximal loads, loads in the 50%-60% neighborhood. Many of these lifters were not beginners. This was their training. Each lifter was hovered over by a coach who hyper-critiqued each lift. Then would come pulls and squats, again done with sub-maximal loads, ever pushing weights (in order to avoid injury).

I came from a gym across town. Three lifters and a ‘coach’ (a former national champion who was NOT USAW certified and had lifted with some of the best lifters of all time). His philosopy is simple: Teach proper technique, allow the lifter to adapt that basic technique in a way that suits him/her, and get the lifter as strong as possible - especially in the back squat.

Consequently, our three lifters dominated the club’s lifters year in, year out. From time to time we’d train at their club. We’d watch as 94Kkg male lifters back squated 120kg. for doubles and they’d watch as our 63kg female did likewise with 130kg. Then they’d whipsper to anyone would listen that the whole lot of us were on steroids.

USAW is a poisoned atmosphere. Top to bottom. It needs to die, stay dead for a decade to allow all the disease to rot away, they be re-born as something totally new, run by new people with good ideas and a passion for sport instead of a passion to advance their own agenda and name.

I really don’t get a lot of what you are writing. Do you think its a bad thing that everyone who coaches someone gets encouraged to have at least some formal training in coaching (i.e. a club coach course)? Yes, that course is fairly minimal, but it imparts basic knowledge to someone so that they can spread the sport! This sport is small - we need more people with at least a basic level of understanding of coaching! The club coach level means VERY little… I dont know why you are inflating it. To move to ANY other level, you have to produce national athletes. The club coach course is just there to get people started in coaching.

Your example of the club in your city is weird. I’ve never been to/heard of any club that trains like that - in fact, I would say that too many people in this country do the exact opposite: they take high percentage lifts every time they are lifting and miss tons of them. In the end, having a thought-out program is necessary.

As far as coaches producing 0 national lifters… a lot that has to do with the athlete, too. Don’t kid yourself - its not an easy task to get to the national level even with a good coach. Especially if you are in one of the more competitive classes that a lot of other athletes fall into. It really sounds like that club is just not a good club.
[/quote]

Agreed. It’s not a good club.

[quote]Dr. Manhattan wrote:
ProwlCat wrote:

Insane. And what were the coaches qualifications aside from the USAW certification? I’d be curious to know. The reason being that 95% of all the lifters I know, have trained with or competed against are also ‘certified USAW coaches’. Many got their coaching credential shortly after joining USAW (you must be a member to compete) and have little experience or knowledge aside from their own training and what they had to learn in order to “pass the test”. Rare is the individual who has knowledge AND the ability to teach. In fact, I can count those individuals on one hand.

I’m from an area in which O-lifting is controlled and dominated by a prominent club. They always have a full roster of lifters, few of quality, most come and go (paying their dues long after they “retire”). The “coaches” teach the same old, tired USAW nonsense and produce ZERO lifters of national, much less international, import. In training there for a few weeks I witnessed one consistent theme: Lifters taking rep after rep with sub-maximal loads, loads in the 50%-60% neighborhood. Many of these lifters were not beginners. This was their training. Each lifter was hovered over by a coach who hyper-critiqued each lift. Then would come pulls and squats, again done with sub-maximal loads, ever pushing weights (in order to avoid injury).

I came from a gym across town. Three lifters and a ‘coach’ (a former national champion who was NOT USAW certified and had lifted with some of the best lifters of all time). His philosopy is simple: Teach proper technique, allow the lifter to adapt that basic technique in a way that suits him/her, and get the lifter as strong as possible - especially in the back squat.

Consequently, our three lifters dominated the club’s lifters year in, year out. From time to time we’d train at their club. We’d watch as 94Kkg male lifters back squated 120kg. for doubles and they’d watch as our 63kg female did likewise with 130kg. Then they’d whipsper to anyone would listen that the whole lot of us were on steroids.

USAW is a poisoned atmosphere. Top to bottom. It needs to die, stay dead for a decade to allow all the disease to rot away, they be re-born as something totally new, run by new people with good ideas and a passion for sport instead of a passion to advance their own agenda and name.

I really don’t get a lot of what you are writing. Do you think its a bad thing that everyone who coaches someone gets encouraged to have at least some formal training in coaching (i.e. a club coach course)? Yes, that course is fairly minimal, but it imparts basic knowledge to someone so that they can spread the sport! This sport is small - we need more people with at least a basic level of understanding of coaching! The club coach level means VERY little… I dont know why you are inflating it. To move to ANY other level, you have to produce national athletes. The club coach course is just there to get people started in coaching.

Your example of the club in your city is weird. I’ve never been to/heard of any club that trains like that - in fact, I would say that too many people in this country do the exact opposite: they take high percentage lifts every time they are lifting and miss tons of them. In the end, having a thought-out program is necessary.

As far as coaches producing 0 national lifters… a lot that has to do with the athlete, too. Don’t kid yourself - its not an easy task to get to the national level even with a good coach. Especially if you are in one of the more competitive classes that a lot of other athletes fall into. It really sounds like that club is just not a good club.
[/quote]

I agree with your example: Too many heavy attempts, too many misses. Technique should be engrained before taking max or PR attempts regularly. Learn to make lifts. That’s important. I just feel that we’ve become too perfectionist in our approach to technique. We should spend as much time getting our lifters strong as we do scruitinizing technique on slow-motion replay or frame by frame computer analysis. That stuff can be useful. But it’s still a strength game.

Many of the “older” guys, USA lifters from the 70’s and before, talk about how today’s American’s just are not strong in comparison to the lifters of their era. I’ve spoken with some of these same fellows and heard them comment on HOW STRONG Asian and European lifters are. I think it’s that simple and I do not discount the honest observations of people who have been around this sport for 40 years.

As I’m not from the US and I’ve been doing weightlifting proper for all of about 2 weeks I’m in no position to comment on most of the statements made here. However, regarding the strength issue, according to Wikipedia Dimas (whose career best C+J was listed as 215.0kg) had personal best front and back squats of 290.0kg and 330.0kg, respectively.

Seems to me like being fucking strong (not just strong, but fucking strong) could play a significant role. I also saw similar jumps in numbers from C+J to squat for Suleymanoglu and Reza Zadeh (also on Wikipedia). Take that for what it’s worth.

Damn! thats a lotta hate being thrown towards USAW, like its evil incarnate.

Fellas, seriously…

The biggest problem with Olympic Weightlifting in the States is that most people DON’T know wtf it is. When you are having a conversation with friends/family/etc and you tell them were doing Power Jerks they think is some kind of joke. If you go to most gyms and you do a front squat people look at you like from another planet, its an ego trip sure, but it goes to show.

In addition…Most High Schools don’t teach them, mine sure as hell didn’t. Some Colleges teach the “power clean”, and most of the time its the “football clean”. My University’s wrestling team (UMCP) stopped teaching the snatch because people were “getting hurt”, when I asked my friend (he was in it, he graduated '08) “Show me how they taught you the Snatch?” The guy was super swinging the bar with his arms straight…well fuck no wonder your getting hurt… I have friends in the track team and they are told by the S&C coach that squatting ATG is BAD…wtf???

And to make matters worst, OlyW is hard to learn and it takes TIME. And by time I mean years… 1year to get wtf you are supposed to do, 2years to start doing what you THINK you’ve doing for the past year, 4-6years to really lift heavy shit. As matter of fact, most the people I’ve seen lift their strengh level is usually above their technique. You don’t have that problem with Powerlifting or Strongman. Then compound this with the lack of facilities with equipment, and even fewer coaches.

like dr. Manhattan said, that $500 or less Certification is a way to teach people who are interested in the sport and bother to compete in it what they are supposed to do. And why is this necessary?? Because there are no freaking coaches around.

On top of that, that lil’ Certification helps with some of the paper work and INSURANCE stuff when someone is starting a club… if it wasn’t for it, the Weightlifting club in my Uni would have been shut down this semester.

/rant

[quote]GMH454 wrote:

Actually I would go as far as saying if you are not pulling hard correctly by 21, your chances of success are next to nothing, no matter what they do. It is a strength sport, not ballet.[/quote]

You will find that if you have started by age 12 with ballet you will never hit the National Ballet companies. The flexibility, mobility and core strength that training before 12 brings can never be obtained after. Not even with Magnificent Mobility, Inside Out etc.

[quote]Neospartan wrote:

/rant

[/quote]

Don’t get me started on the UK, they don’t even know what lifting is :smiley:

[quote]Neospartan wrote:
Damn! thats a lotta hate being thrown towards USAW, like its evil incarnate.

Fellas, seriously…

The biggest problem with Olympic Weightlifting in the States is that most people DON’T know wtf it is. When you are having a conversation with friends/family/etc and you tell them were doing Power Jerks they think is some kind of joke. If you go to most gyms and you do a front squat people look at you like from another planet, its an ego trip sure, but it goes to show.

In addition…Most High Schools don’t teach them, mine sure as hell didn’t. Some Colleges teach the “power clean”, and most of the time its the “football clean”. My University’s wrestling team (UMCP) stopped teaching the snatch because people were “getting hurt”, when I asked my friend (he was in it, he graduated '08) “Show me how they taught you the Snatch?” The guy was super swinging the bar with his arms straight…well fuck no wonder your getting hurt… I have friends in the track team and they are told by the S&C coach that squatting ATG is BAD…wtf???

And to make matters worst, OlyW is hard to learn and it takes TIME. And by time I mean years… 1year to get wtf you are supposed to do, 2years to start doing what you THINK you’ve doing for the past year, 4-6years to really lift heavy shit. As matter of fact, most the people I’ve seen lift their strengh level is usually above their technique. You don’t have that problem with Powerlifting or Strongman. Then compound this with the lack of facilities with equipment, and even fewer coaches.

like dr. Manhattan said, that $500 or less Certification is a way to teach people who are interested in the sport and bother to compete in it what they are supposed to do. And why is this necessary?? Because there are no freaking coaches around.

On top of that, that lil’ Certification helps with some of the paper work and INSURANCE stuff when someone is starting a club… if it wasn’t for it, the Weightlifting club in my Uni would have been shut down this semester.

/rant

[/quote]

I understand your points. We have well known issues attracting quality athletes to weightlifting. The sport is overshadowed by football, track and field, powerlifting, you name it. It’s become a fringe sport. That said, we have attracted some excellent athetes in recent years. In MY OPINION, based on firt hand observation, our coaches have failed to maximize the talents of those lifters. Shane Hamman, I think, is an exception. He never won world titles, but he did place fairly well internationally and did set all of the (adjusted) USA records. Shane was a powerlifter before he was an olympic lifter. He spent years developing power (check out some of his old powerlifting meet videos - squatting divebomb style). THAT is what - IN MY OPINION (and the opinion of a lot of others) - is missing here in the good old US of A.

[quote]ProwlCat wrote:
Shane was a powerlifter before he was an olympic lifter. He spent years developing power (check out some of his old powerlifting meet videos - squatting divebomb style). THAT is what - IN MY OPINION (and the opinion of a lot of others) - is missing here in the good old US of A. [/quote]

Shane Hamman is a beast- there’s a YouTube clip out there of him squatting at the USPF Seniors in the 90s (1994, I think). Just an incredibly powerful dude. He really only trained for weightlifting for a a few years before he got to a national and, ultimately, an olympic level.

I was looking at soem results from the USAWL Seniors form last year, a guy named Caleb William did very well. He also came from powerlifting- one of the best drug-tested 148 class powerlifters out there. He switched to WLing 2 or 3 years ago and has really blossomed in the sport. This kind of thing makes me wonder whether the deficiency in US weightlifitng has to do with coaching so much as the aptitude of the athletes that come to the sport here.

As for a coaching style, can you solely blame coaches? This is not a team sport- training style, what meets to lift in, what weights to attmept are really up to the lifter. Yeah, you rely on training partners or “coaches” to tell you how easy/hard a lift looked, but it’s still your thing.

[quote]Pinto wrote:
ProwlCat wrote:
Shane was a powerlifter before he was an olympic lifter. He spent years developing power (check out some of his old powerlifting meet videos - squatting divebomb style). THAT is what - IN MY OPINION (and the opinion of a lot of others) - is missing here in the good old US of A.

Shane Hamman is a beast- there’s a YouTube clip out there of him squatting at the USPF Seniors in the 90s (1994, I think). Just an incredibly powerful dude. He really only trained for weightlifting for a a few years before he got to a national and, ultimately, an olympic level.

I was looking at soem results from the USAWL Seniors form last year, a guy named Caleb William did very well. He also came from powerlifting- one of the best drug-tested 148 class powerlifters out there. He switched to WLing 2 or 3 years ago and has really blossomed in the sport. This kind of thing makes me wonder whether the deficiency in US weightlifitng has to do with coaching so much as the aptitude of the athletes that come to the sport here.

As for a coaching style, can you solely blame coaches? This is not a team sport- training style, what meets to lift in, what weights to attmept are really up to the lifter. Yeah, you rely on training partners or “coaches” to tell you how easy/hard a lift looked, but it’s still your thing.
[/quote]

Look, you just make my case. Coaches do not spend enough time getting their lifters strong. You gave two example (one that I used in my example) of two lifter who’ve done well in the sport with comparatively little training time. What do they have in common? They spend years in another sport - a strength sport - getting STRONG! Meanwhile we’ve had guys as the OTC get passed like they’re standing still by guys who are weightlifting neophytes. Why? Strength. I’ll say it again: It’s a strength game.

[quote]echelon101 wrote:
GMH454 wrote:

Actually I would go as far as saying if you are not pulling hard correctly by 21, your chances of success are next to nothing, no matter what they do. It is a strength sport, not ballet.

You will find that if you have started by age 12 with ballet you will never hit the National Ballet companies. The flexibility, mobility and core strength that training before 12 brings can never be obtained after. Not even with Magnificent Mobility, Inside Out etc.[/quote]

Very good, but at least you can get on “you think you can dance”, not sure what I late life OLer will ever get apart from the feeling that he is elete too because his sport has “olympic” in it’s name. (and I was a late life Oler, I started at 16, should have started at 14)

[quote]Neospartan wrote:
Damn! thats a lotta hate being thrown towards USAW, like its evil incarnate.

The biggest problem with Olympic Weightlifting in the States is that most people DON’T know wtf it is. When you are having a conversation with friends/family/etc and you tell them were doing Power Jerks they think is some kind of joke.

[/quote]

lets wind the clock back to the 1960’s, when you did not tell anyone but your closest friends that you lifted. The derision and scorn heaped on lifters them, being gay, musclebound, developing “athletes heart”, having “all their muscle turn to fat”, made it much simpler to just shut up.

You have been born in a post Arnold Globo Gym world, where now everyone feels they are an expert on lifting, if they have even walked in the door of a gym once.

Now go back to US in the mid 60’s
Louis Reicke WR snatch
Schmansky WR snatch both were splitters by the way
Bob Bednarski WR Press, WR jerk as Super, and then multiple WR breaker in 110s
Picket WR press
think Knipp broke a press record or two,
in the 70s, Patera, James and Grippaladi all place, Karchuk Deal, Dube, Holbrook, Knipp all missed lifts that would have got them on the podium at the OG or WC.

They competed as full amatueurs (maybe except for Bednarski who had jobs at York) against the professional Soviet athletes.

They competed at a time when lifting was anything but “cool”

Compare your history to your present, the US is a poor shadow of itself.

i agree that theres a ton of guys doing wannabe Oly moves who are pathetic.

ive seen guys at my gym doing whatever that deadlift+overhead press thing is with like litearlly, 115 pounds. i can find you 10 people off the street who could probaly do that.

the funniest part is though, that i always think theyre from this website since so many articles say to include Oly style lifts.

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
what does 6 for 6 or 2/6 mean? I tried using search but putting in numbers in google and weightlifting comes up with a million things primarily sets and reps.[/quote]

Attempts and successful attempts. 2/6 means 1 snatch and one c&j. You get three attempts in each lift and need to make one attempt in each lift to stay in the competition.

6/6 means every lift attempted was successful.

You’re not going to technique triple bodyweight overhead. Or double bodyweight. You need strength, period.

What about the old no no no squat. No spotters, belt or suit and some guy does 595-600 over triple bodyweight rock bottom.

How the F can you clean something if you can’t front squat it? I lost all respect for olympic lifting years ago in this country.