US Strike Kills Kids At a School

[quote]lixy wrote:
Are you saying the U.S. military intentionally tried to kill schoolchildren? So you are saying they opened fire to purposely kill children? What is your point?

1.Hear, hear, I asked about an Iraqi source backing that up. Don’t take it as an offense, but I usually rely on unbiased source. It’s normal for both parties to accuse each others of being for the massacre.

So Americans don’t try to avoid civilian casualties. Me being a U.S. Soldier who served in Iraq, I wouldn’t know, and you would.

That’s not what I said. I said that you’re not the only army to not fire on civilians. That’s a basic requirement which we expect every soldier in the world to follow. Bringing it up is ludicrous, and that’s what I was getting at.

Get mad a Saddam Hussein then for breaking international law.

  1. In case you didn’t know, Saddam is dead. Also, the international community was heavily opposed to
    war. So, I’ll blame Bush and his minions.

The American soldiers over there are willing to die for people that hate them and you wont even give them the benefit of the doubt.

  1. You’re reading selectively jump’. I clearly stated that I had no doubt most soldiers were doing their best -under the circumstances- to avoid harming civilians, but you can’t possibly dismiss the possibility of some racist/supremacist/bloodthirsty
    serving in the US military. Such abuses are documented.

Lixy you dumb ass terrorist mother fucker. They where protecting themselves its sad that 7 kids died but it was your Brothers in arms that hid behind them in the first place.

Oh, I hate going into the name-calling area. It serves no purpose but inflame the debate. So, I’ll keep a cool head this time.

Anyway, in case you didn’t know, I am a pacifist, so I can’t consider anyone with arms my brother. The corollary to that is that I oppose all forms of terror.[/quote]

So democracynow is an unbiased source
could have fooled me!

  1. I quoted you verbatim what you said! You assuming the soldiers are bloodythirsty to kill children is not ludicris, but me defending them is? Do you know how many times I was almost killed trying to help Iraqi children? Do you think Apache pilots rove around looking to kill children? What about the terrorists that fired on them, like YOUR source said.

  2. They were heavily opposed to war, but they couldn’t enforce the sanctions so someone had too. Genocidal mass murderers have to be held to account.

  3. Documented by your unbiased sources Im sure. 99.9999% are there to help and those that cross the line are punished by the U.S

*You are a sad piece of trash. I wish I could meet you face to face, I bet you aren’t so bold.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
lixy wrote:
I’m also pretty certain that given the nature of the conflict, many many civilians get shot just because a soldier didn’t want to take any risk and decided to shoot first and ask questions later. This is very natural and I’m sure I’d do the same in that situation. Such “mistakes” are hardly avoidable and that’s one of the reasons you wanna get the hell out of there before you alienate the Iraqis even further.

Just from speaking to some really good friends from the initial invasion it happens more often than not when the adrenaline is pumping and the future of ones survival is uncertain…it become a “me or them” mentality.

It happens and it sucks for all involved; the people who end up wounded or dead, the victims family, and the guilt the soldier or marine feels from pulling the trigger after the conflict is over when he or she is forced to ask, “was it necessary?” I know at least two situations where innocents may have been killed by personal friends of mine and they do not sleep at night anymore.[/quote]

You are right, such things are natural to ask and I have asked myself those things, but when you are taking on fire you return it using the best target discrimination you can so you do not injure or kill civilians.

Lixy is saying there is a bloodthirsty, racist supremist portion of our military just out to kill innocents. Im sure your friends don’t fit into that category niether did I or anyone else I knew. Out of respect for your friends why don’t you call lixy out on his bullshit!

Waiting for lixy to condemn the terrorists for using schoolchildren as shields.

crickets crickets crickets.

According to lixy logic, even though we are repeatedly asked by the representative government of Iraq to stay, it’s our fault for civilian casualties.

In lixy’s world, I wonder if there is any behavior that couldn’t be excused by our presence.

You just keep digging the hole lixy, you’ll find yourself all alone. You’ve even dug below orion. You passed bradley and petey 2 weeks ago.

Congrats, you are the sole occupant of uncharted depths.

JeffR

[quote]lixy wrote:
While Thunderbolt is busy posting stories about Islamists’ attacks on schools that didn’t happen, the US military is ACTUALLY killing children at schools.

[/quote]

Ok when you typed this it makes it look like you’re calling the U.S. military worse than Al-Queda.

jumper,

[quote]jumper wrote:
You are right, such things are natural to ask and I have asked myself those things, but when you are taking on fire you return it using the best target discrimination you can so you do not injure or kill civilians. [/quote]

When the British troops were sent into northern Ireland to protect the catholics they had pretty similar ideas about the rules of engagement. The results were also similar to Iraq - some catholic civilians were killed in exchanges of fire. The violence escalated, The British troops committed a few atrocities, and we ended up with decades of sectarian violence. Not good.

Now, almost all British troops are specifically trained in how to deal with urban warfare among a civilian population, and most served in Northern Ireland at some point. Notice that the UK-occupied zones have been consistently much less violent than the US ones; I believe this is the reason.

In this instance my understanding is that British troops would never be allowed to return fire from a helicopter gunship in a heavily built up urban area.

Tragically there have been atrocities committed by US (and UK) forces, including murder and rape. This is not open to debate. I hope we are all sufficiently adult to be able to condemn this just as we totally condemn terrorist violence and just as we all hope for a better future for the Iraqi people.

I believe that everyone who has posted in this thread holds the same hopes for Iraq and it’s people. We are arguing about the methods for achieving this. I don’t see why this level of vitriol, let alone physical threats, is necessary.

[quote]lixy wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Do you ever try to see things from a different perspective.

If that was a question then believe me, I do my best. However, I doubt you do the same.

But my question was pretty straight forward. Do you expect the mom, dad and brothers of the dead kids to ever forgive the USA for the act? I mean, such thing would have never happened if you didn’t invade Iraq. Isn’t it logical that they would hold you responsible for the chaotic state their country is in? And by extention, of every victim of said chaos?[/quote]

I would NEVER forgive the scum who used my children as a human shield.

But, since I’m a Muslim, I can’t attack my fellow-muslims or Osama would get pissed at me. So, I’ll take vengeance on the victi…er, Americans.

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Waiting for lixy to condemn the terrorists for using schoolchildren as shields.

crickets crickets crickets.

According to lixy logic, even though we are repeatedly asked by the representative government of Iraq to stay, it’s our fault for civilian casualties.

In lixy’s world, I wonder if there is any behavior that couldn’t be excused by our presence.

You just keep digging the hole lixy, you’ll find yourself all alone. You’ve even dug below orion. You passed bradley and petey 2 weeks ago.

Congrats, you are the sole occupant of uncharted depths.

JeffR

[/quote]

Wow. Lower than Orion. Pete is just frustrated and venting (I may be wrong). Orion and Lixy are in a class by themselves (Lixy being much lower).

I’m still waiting on Orion to enlighten me on American history and Abraham Lincoln.

[quote]Jamougha wrote:
jumper,

jumper wrote:
You are right, such things are natural to ask and I have asked myself those things, but when you are taking on fire you return it using the best target discrimination you can so you do not injure or kill civilians.

When the British troops were sent into northern Ireland to protect the catholics they had pretty similar ideas about the rules of engagement. The results were also similar to Iraq - some catholic civilians were killed in exchanges of fire. The violence escalated, The British troops committed a few atrocities, and we ended up with decades of sectarian violence. Not good.

Now, almost all British troops are specifically trained in how to deal with urban warfare among a civilian population, and most served in Northern Ireland at some point. Notice that the UK-occupied zones have been consistently much less violent than the US ones; I believe this is the reason.

In this instance my understanding is that British troops would never be allowed to return fire from a helicopter gunship in a heavily built up urban area.

Lixy is saying there is a bloodthirsty, racist supremist portion of our military just out to kill innocents. Im sure your friends don’t fit into that category niether did I or anyone else I knew. Out of respect for your friends why don’t you call lixy out on his bullshit!

Tragically there have been atrocities committed by US (and UK) forces, including murder and rape. This is not open to debate. I hope we are all sufficiently adult to be able to condemn this just as we totally condemn terrorist violence and just as we all hope for a better future for the Iraqi people.

I believe that everyone who has posted in this thread holds the same hopes for Iraq and it’s people. We are arguing about the methods for achieving this. I don’t see why this level of vitriol, let alone physical threats, is necessary.[/quote]

Here’s the difference…American and British atrocities are not accepted as policy and those committing them are vigorously prosecuted. Terrorist atrocities are celebrated by dancing in the streets and shouts of “allah Akbar!”.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
lixy wrote:

While Thunderbolt is busy posting stories about Islamists’ attacks on schools that didn’t happen, the US military is ACTUALLY killing children at schools.

Strangely, you sound disappointed - or attempting to suggest the fact that we were lucky enough to prevent the massacre made the issue unimportant.

Wow. [/quote]

Lixy’s education will now continue. LMAO!

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Here’s the difference…American and British atrocities are not accepted as policy and those committing them are vigorously prosecuted. Terrorist atrocities are celebrated by dancing in the streets and shouts of “allah Akbar!”.
[/quote]

It’s not clear to me how this is specifically relevant to the points I made.

Hear, hear, I asked about an Iraqi source backing that up. Don’t take it as an offense, but I usually rely on unbiased source. It’s normal for both parties to accuse each others of being for the massacre.

Ok, if you let me jump wars for a moment…

Afghan MPs demand end to military offensives | Afghanistan | The Guardian

“Assadulla Wafa, the governor of Helmand province, said Taliban militants had taken shelter in villagers’ homes during fighting in the Sangin district last night. Women and children were among the victims of the air strikes that followed.”

There, Assadulla said it.

(Assadulla??) lol…

Lix,

Hate to say it bud, but hiding in a school to basically hold the children hostage goes against every rule in the book.

The fault for the casualties belongs with the low life scum that do such things.

Your headline grabbing “war is bad” bullshit is shameful.

Is it tragic? Of course it is. However, you have to develop a deeper understanding of the issues or simply be dismissed as irrelevant.

Oops, too late. Oh well, you can always hope that advancements in science will help you grow a brain one day.

On top of all that, I do think Iraq was a mistake, but that doesn’t negate the logic involved in current situations.

Lixy,

Why does Islam use Mickey Mouse for jihad purposes? This is sick shit.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/016322.php

“To the people of the crosses: Return to your senses and be aware that God’s soldiers are ready for you. You wanted a crusade and these are its results.”

Lixy, please help me understand why your religion is peaceful?

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/08/opinion/edisaac.php

[quote]Jamougha wrote:
jumper,

jumper wrote:
You are right, such things are natural to ask and I have asked myself those things, but when you are taking on fire you return it using the best target discrimination you can so you do not injure or kill civilians.

When the British troops were sent into northern Ireland to protect the catholics they had pretty similar ideas about the rules of engagement. The results were also similar to Iraq - some catholic civilians were killed in exchanges of fire. The violence escalated, The British troops committed a few atrocities, and we ended up with decades of sectarian violence. Not good.

Now, almost all British troops are specifically trained in how to deal with urban warfare among a civilian population, and most served in Northern Ireland at some point. Notice that the UK-occupied zones have been consistently much less violent than the US ones; I believe this is the reason.

In this instance my understanding is that British troops would never be allowed to return fire from a helicopter gunship in a heavily built up urban area.

Lixy is saying there is a bloodthirsty, racist supremist portion of our military just out to kill innocents. Im sure your friends don’t fit into that category niether did I or anyone else I knew. Out of respect for your friends why don’t you call lixy out on his bullshit!

Tragically there have been atrocities committed by US (and UK) forces, including murder and rape. This is not open to debate. I hope we are all sufficiently adult to be able to condemn this just as we totally condemn terrorist violence and just as we all hope for a better future for the Iraqi people.

I believe that everyone who has posted in this thread holds the same hopes for Iraq and it’s people. We are arguing about the methods for achieving this. I don’t see why this level of vitriol, let alone physical threats, is necessary.[/quote]

Great post.

Here’s an idea: instead of the name calling, and the pointless repetition of the fact that we’re morally better than they are (which is obvious to everyone, including even lixy I think), why don’t we look at what stories like this mean?

Regardless of the fact that terrorists and insurgents hide among the people, OUR bombs are killing civilians. Far less than in most wars, less than even in most “dirty wars” like this one, but nonetheless, in the information war, we are killing civilians. That’s basically the bottom line.

If we realize that this war is won or lost with the Iraqi civilian population and the American voter, which it undoubtedly is, why are we doing stupid things like this? Why are we using airpower (and sometimes artillery) in a campaign against guerrillas who hide among the people?

This post from Bill Lind, who may be familiar to some Marines here, says it well. Pay attention to the last couple sentences:
http://www.d-n-i.net/lind/lind_4_23_07.htm

[quote]Jamougha wrote:
jumper,

jumper wrote:
You are right, such things are natural to ask and I have asked myself those things, but when you are taking on fire you return it using the best target discrimination you can so you do not injure or kill civilians.

When the British troops were sent into northern Ireland to protect the catholics they had pretty similar ideas about the rules of engagement. The results were also similar to Iraq - some catholic civilians were killed in exchanges of fire. The violence escalated, The British troops committed a few atrocities, and we ended up with decades of sectarian violence. Not good.

Now, almost all British troops are specifically trained in how to deal with urban warfare among a civilian population, and most served in Northern Ireland at some point. Notice that the UK-occupied zones have been consistently much less violent than the US ones; I believe this is the reason.

In this instance my understanding is that British troops would never be allowed to return fire from a helicopter gunship in a heavily built up urban area.

Lixy is saying there is a bloodthirsty, racist supremist portion of our military just out to kill innocents. Im sure your friends don’t fit into that category niether did I or anyone else I knew. Out of respect for your friends why don’t you call lixy out on his bullshit!

Tragically there have been atrocities committed by US (and UK) forces, including murder and rape. This is not open to debate. I hope we are all sufficiently adult to be able to condemn this just as we totally condemn terrorist violence and just as we all hope for a better future for the Iraqi people.

I believe that everyone who has posted in this thread holds the same hopes for Iraq and it’s people. We are arguing about the methods for achieving this. I don’t see why this level of vitriol, let alone physical threats, is necessary.[/quote]

Aren’t the British troops mostly stationed in Shia areas while the US troops are stationed in Sunni areas as well as areas that the Sunnis and Shia are intermixed?

I think the violence seen by the US troops is more of a function of the ethnic/sectarian makeup of the population rather than experience some British troops may have had in Northern Ireland.

[quote]Tokoya wrote:
Lixy,

Why does Islam use Mickey Mouse for jihad purposes? This is sick shit.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/016322.php[/quote]

LOL. Don’t you disgrace Mickey, you muslim bastards!

[quote]Tokoya wrote:
Lixy,

Why does Islam use Mickey Mouse for jihad purposes? This is sick shit.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/016322.php[/quote]

Very peaceful people indeed. Spongebob would kick this little mouse’s ass.

This is not the first time Islam has used children’s cartoons to promote religious violence and domination.

Can’t wait for Lixy’s spin on this one.

Lixy wrote “I believe every single soldier in the world is taught not to fire at civilians. It’s not a characteristic of you army.”

The biggest exception here are muslims who don’t wear uniforms, hide in mosques, and behind children.

Lixy, help me understand why they are such cowards, and fight - excuse me - “resist” in that fashion, and expect sympathy when their kids get caught in the crossfire.

Dysfunctionality in the extreme.