T Nation

US Strike Kills Kids At a School

While Thunderbolt is busy posting stories about Islamists’ attacks on schools that didn’t happen, the US military is ACTUALLY killing children at schools.

in Iraq, another U.S. airstrike has claimed the lives of seven children. A U.S. helicopter opened fire on a primary school in a village close to the Iranian border. At least three other students were injured with heavy damage to the school building. The U.S. military says it fired after coming under attack from the school grounds.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/09/1511248

[i]CAIRO, May 8. ? Seven children, students at a public school in the Iraqi town of Mandali in Diyala province, were killed after a U.S. helicopter gunship fired on the town, according to Iraqi police sources.

The children were students at the Al-Saada school near the border with Iran, the EFE reported.

Along with the children, three other individuals were seriously injured by the attack, and the number of dead could rise. Diyala has been one of the provinces with the most violence this past year, with constant incidents. [/i]

http://www.granma.cu/ingles/2007/mayo/mier9/u-s-helicopter-attack-in-iraq.html

My question to the supporters of the war is this: Do you expect the families of the kids not to seek revenge? If you were in their shoes, wouldn’t you spend the rest of your life trying to hurt the perpetrators? They’re KIDS for heaven’s sake!

Don’t come wondering why terrorism increased. The reasons couldn’t be clearer.

Meanwhile, an Afghan governor confirmed a US airstrike left 21 civilians dead in a Southern village of Afghanistan. The dead included women and children. Locals quoted a much higher toll of up to 48 killed and 20 wounded.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21701026-2703,00.html

And I’m sure some jerk by the name of PGJ will come around claiming it’s a bloodless war and “we’re not worse than the Nazis”.

[quote]lixy wrote:
While Thunderbolt is busy posting stories about Islamists’ attacks on schools that didn’t happen, the US military is ACTUALLY killing children at schools.

in Iraq, another U.S. airstrike has claimed the lives of seven children. A U.S. helicopter opened fire on a primary school in a village close to the Iranian border. At least three other students were injured with heavy damage to the school building. The U.S. military says it fired after coming under attack from the school grounds.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/09/1511248

[i]CAIRO, May 8. ? Seven children, students at a public school in the Iraqi town of Mandali in Diyala province, were killed after a U.S. helicopter gunship fired on the town, according to Iraqi police sources.

The children were students at the Al-Saada school near the border with Iran, the EFE reported.

Along with the children, three other individuals were seriously injured by the attack, and the number of dead could rise. Diyala has been one of the provinces with the most violence this past year, with constant incidents. [/i]

http://www.granma.cu/ingles/2007/mayo/mier9/u-s-helicopter-attack-in-iraq.html

My question to the supporters of the war is this: Do you expect the families of the kids not to seek revenge? If you were in their shoes, wouldn’t you spend the rest of your life trying to hurt the perpetrators? They’re KIDS for heaven’s sake!

Don’t come wondering why terrorism increased. The reasons couldn’t be clearer.

Meanwhile, an Afghan governor confirmed a US airstrike left 21 civilians dead in a Southern village of Afghanistan. The dead included women and children. Locals quoted a much higher toll of up to 48 killed and 20 wounded.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21701026-2703,00.html

And I’m sure some jerk by the name of PGJ will come around claiming it’s a bloodless war and “we’re not worse than the Nazis”.[/quote]

I think I would be pissed at the terrorists for hiding behind children again. This is a common tactic in Islamic warfare (widely used in the Iran/Iraq War and in Somalia). Do you ever try to see things from a different perspective.

American forces are not targeting schools and children. Now, when terrorists start hiding in schools and shooting at American helicopters, there will be overwhelming response. Just like they hide in “holy places” and hospitals.

Lixy, you just can’t bring yourself to consider that maybe, just maybe the terrorists are in the wrong. Are you not upset that these people are using children as human shields?

[quote]lixy wrote:
While Thunderbolt is busy posting stories about Islamists’ attacks on schools that didn’t happen, the US military is ACTUALLY killing children at schools.

in Iraq, another U.S. airstrike has claimed the lives of seven children. A U.S. helicopter opened fire on a primary school in a village close to the Iranian border. At least three other students were injured with heavy damage to the school building. The U.S. military says it fired after coming under attack from the school grounds.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/09/1511248

[i]CAIRO, May 8. ? Seven children, students at a public school in the Iraqi town of Mandali in Diyala province, were killed after a U.S. helicopter gunship fired on the town, according to Iraqi police sources.

The children were students at the Al-Saada school near the border with Iran, the EFE reported.

Along with the children, three other individuals were seriously injured by the attack, and the number of dead could rise. Diyala has been one of the provinces with the most violence this past year, with constant incidents. [/i]

http://www.granma.cu/ingles/2007/mayo/mier9/u-s-helicopter-attack-in-iraq.html

My question to the supporters of the war is this: Do you expect the families of the kids not to seek revenge? If you were in their shoes, wouldn’t you spend the rest of your life trying to hurt the perpetrators? They’re KIDS for heaven’s sake!

Don’t come wondering why terrorism increased. The reasons couldn’t be clearer.

Meanwhile, an Afghan governor confirmed a US airstrike left 21 civilians dead in a Southern village of Afghanistan. The dead included women and children. Locals quoted a much higher toll of up to 48 killed and 20 wounded.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21701026-2703,00.html

And I’m sure some jerk by the name of PGJ will come around claiming it’s a bloodless war and “we’re not worse than the Nazis”.[/quote]

Notice it said they were firing back after coming under attack. My personal expieriences over there taught me that the terrorists main weapon was the Americans big hearts. Human sheilds were a big advantage for them because they know that American soldiers are taught not to fire at innocent civilians, but when you are taking on fire, you have to return fire. This is sad, I did my best to protect the innocent when I was over there.

These things happen in war, I hope you do not think the Americans intentionally tried to kill schoolchildren, but knowing you lixy you do. The real problem is had there not been enemy gunfire coming from there the Americans would not have to return fire, so ultimatley the ones at fault are the ones that initiated the firing, why cant you get mad at them.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Do you ever try to see things from a different perspective. [/quote]

If that was a question then believe me, I do my best. However, I doubt you do the same.

But my question was pretty straight forward. Do you expect the mom, dad and brothers of the dead kids to ever forgive the USA for the act? I mean, such thing would have never happened if you didn’t invade Iraq. Isn’t it logical that they would hold you responsible for the chaotic state their country is in? And by extention, of every victim of said chaos?

[quote]lixy wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Do you ever try to see things from a different perspective.

If that was a question then believe me, I do my best. However, I doubt you do the same.

But my question was pretty straight forward. Do you expect the mom, dad and brothers of the dead kids to ever forgive the USA for the act? I mean, such thing would have never happened if you didn’t invade Iraq. Isn’t it logical that they would hold you responsible for the chaotic state their country is in? And by extention, of every victim of said chaos?[/quote]

You know what, yes, I’d be pissed. But then I’d go get a gun and start hunting down those sorry-assed terrorists who were were using my child as a human shield. Come on, who is really at fault here? I wonder if the building had “SCHOOL” written on it.

I’ll bet a paycheck that the terrorists selectied that particular building to fire from SPECIFICALLY to draw return fire, hoping kids would get killed.

Care to make that wager?

I wonder how the parents ever forgive the terrorists.

This cyber-jihad thing you have going on is rediculous.

[quote]jumper wrote:
Notice it said they were firing back after coming under attack. [/quote]

When you say “they”, do you mean the seven dead kids?

I believe every single soldier in the world is taught not to fire at civilians. It’s not a characteristic of you army.

If you have any Iraqi police report saying “it” initiated the shooting, please share. Till then, I’ll get mad at the ones that turned Iraq into a terrorist haven in the first place.

Regarding the “intent” of killing schoolchildren, I have no doubt most US soldiers do their best not to hurt civilians, but am also not naive enough to dismiss the possibility of some of them doing it on purpose. You DO have twisted minds on both sides. Best illustration:

I’m also pretty certain that given the nature of the conflict, many many civilians get shot just because a soldier didn’t want to take any risk and decided to shoot first and ask questions later. This is very natural and I’m sure I’d do the same in that situation. Such “mistakes” are hardly avoidable and that’s one of the reasons you wanna get the hell out of there before you alienate the Iraqis even further.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
You know what, yes, I’d be pissed. But then I’d go get a gun and start hunting down those sorry-assed terrorists who were were using my child as a human shield. Come on, who is really at fault here? I wonder if the building had “SCHOOL” written on it. [/quote]

Like I said, those are good points but you miss the whole perspective thingy. The fact of the matter is that no organized Islamist group was operating in Iraq before you invaded. A short while into the Spring of 2003, the scum of the Muslim world converged to Iraq. How you’re gonna explain to the father of the dead kid that it’s not your fault? I wouldn’t be surprised if the hatred persisted for generations to come.

Welcome to the club! Hedo, Zap and the others wish you a pleasant stay.

“The U.S. military says it fired after coming under attack from the school grounds.”- Straight from the article you posted.

Are you saying the U.S. military intentionally tried to kill schoolchildren? So you are saying they opened fire to purposely kill children? What is your point?

“I believe every single soldier in the world is taught not to fire at civilians. It’s not a characteristic of you army.”

So Americans don’t try to avoid civilian casualties. Me being a U.S. Soldier who served in Iraq, I wouldn’t know, and you would.

“Till then, I’ll get mad at the ones that turned Iraq into a terrorist haven in the first place.”

Get mad a Saddam Hussein then for breaking international law.

“Regarding the “intent” of killing schoolchildren, I have no doubt most US soldiers do their best not to hurt civilians, but am also not naive enough to dismiss the possibility of some of them doing it on purpose. You DO have twisted minds on both sides.”

This is the most ridiculous statement ever written. You need help. The American soldiers over there are willing to die for people that hate them and you wont even give them the benefit of the doubt.

Lixy you dumb ass terrorist mother fucker. They where protecting themselves its sad that 7 kids died but it was your Brothers in arms that hid behind them in the first place.

[quote]lixy wrote:
PGJ wrote:
You know what, yes, I’d be pissed. But then I’d go get a gun and start hunting down those sorry-assed terrorists who were were using my child as a human shield. Come on, who is really at fault here? I wonder if the building had “SCHOOL” written on it.

Like I said, those are good points but you miss the whole perspective thingy. The fact of the matter is that no organized Islamist group was operating in Iraq before you invaded. A short while into the Spring of 2003, the scum of the Muslim world converged to Iraq. How you’re gonna explain to the father of the dead kid that it’s not your fault? I wouldn’t be surprised if the hatred persisted for generations to come.

This cyber-jihad thing you have going on is rediculous.

Welcome to the club! Hedo, Zap and the others wish you a pleasant stay.[/quote]

I answered your question, now answer one of mine.

Do you hold terrorists at all accountable in this situation for using kids as human shields?

By the way, the hatred absolutely will last for generations, just like it has exsisted for the last 1,000 years. These people hate everyone not like them. They hate each other. Tribal hatred. Freaking Alexander the Great noted this phenomenon as he destroyed the great Persian Empire.

The Islamist group that operated in Iraq before the invasion was called the Baath party. Their leader was Saddam Husein. They slaughtered people by the thousands, including children. Maybe you’ve heard of this group.

[quote]PGJ wrote:

Lixy, you just can’t bring yourself to consider that maybe, just maybe the terrorists are in the wrong. Are you not upset that these people are using children as human shields? [/quote]

Good post.

When terrorists TARGET a girls school Lixy blames the US.

When terrorists hide behind children Lixy blames the US.

Disgusting!

Hear, hear, I asked about an Iraqi source backing that up. Don’t take it as an offense, but I usually rely on unbiased source. It’s normal for both parties to accuse each others of being for the massacre.

That’s not what I said. I said that you’re not the only army to not fire on civilians. That’s a basic requirement which we expect every soldier in the world to follow. Bringing it up is ludicrous, and that’s what I was getting at.

In case you didn’t know, Saddam is dead. Also, the international community was heavily opposed to
war. So, I’ll blame Bush and his minions.

You’re reading selectively jump’. I clearly stated that I had no doubt most soldiers were doing their best -under the circumstances- to avoid harming civilians, but you can’t possibly dismiss the possibility of some racist/supremacist/bloodthirsty
serving in the US military. Such abuses are documented.

Oh, I hate going into the name-calling area. It serves no purpose but inflame the debate. So, I’ll keep a cool head this time.

Anyway, in case you didn’t know, I am a pacifist, so I can’t consider anyone with arms my brother. The corollary to that is that I oppose all forms of terror.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

Good post.

When terrorists TARGET a girls school Lixy blames the US.

When terrorists hide behind children Lixy blames the US.

Disgusting![/quote]

Yes - poor, sniveling Lixy: I start a post about how his “freedom fighters” are intentionally trying to murder school-age girls, and Lixy tries to counter by noting when civilians are used as shields, it is the fault of the US.

The sad fact is that every war will have civilian casualties - only Lixy and his ilk will try to use every single tragic event to profit through use of naked propaganda.

[quote]lixy wrote:

While Thunderbolt is busy posting stories about Islamists’ attacks on schools that didn’t happen, the US military is ACTUALLY killing children at schools.[/quote]

Strangely, you sound disappointed - or attempting to suggest the fact that we were lucky enough to prevent the massacre made the issue unimportant.

Wow.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:

Good post.

When terrorists TARGET a girls school Lixy blames the US.

When terrorists hide behind children Lixy blames the US.

Disgusting!

Yes - poor, sniveling Lixy: I start a post about how his “freedom fighters” are intentionally trying to murder school-age girls, and Lixy tries to counter by noting when civilians are used as shields, it is the fault of the US.

The sad fact is that every war will have civilian casualties - only Lixy and his ilk will try to use every single tragic event to profit through use of naked propaganda.[/quote]

“sniveling lixy” - an appropriate title.

[quote]lixy wrote:

Oh, I hate going into the name-calling area. It serves no purpose but inflame the debate. So, I’ll keep a cool head this time.[/quote]

I realize you wouldn’t be caught dead name-calling.

From the original post that opened the thread:

And I’m sure some jerk by the name of PGJ will come around claiming it’s a bloodless war and “we’re not worse than the Nazis”.

[quote]lixy wrote:
I’m also pretty certain that given the nature of the conflict, many many civilians get shot just because a soldier didn’t want to take any risk and decided to shoot first and ask questions later. This is very natural and I’m sure I’d do the same in that situation. Such “mistakes” are hardly avoidable and that’s one of the reasons you wanna get the hell out of there before you alienate the Iraqis even further. [/quote]

Just from speaking to some really good friends from the initial invasion it happens more often than not when the adrenaline is pumping and the future of ones survival is uncertain…it become a “me or them” mentality.

It happens and it sucks for all involved; the people who end up wounded or dead, the victims family, and the guilt the soldier or marine feels from pulling the trigger after the conflict is over when he or she is forced to ask, “was it necessary?” I know at least two situations where innocents may have been killed by personal friends of mine and they do not sleep at night anymore.