T Nation

US Seen As Vulgar Empire Builder

A poll from Telegraph.co.uk about America.

Me Solomon Grundy

Let the flaming begin!

[quote]Solomon Grundy wrote:
A poll from Telegraph.co.uk about America.

Even though part of me agrees with the article, my ethical side compels me to admit that the UK Telegraph is pretty much as left wing biased as MSM can get.

Having said that, every single European I’ve talked to in the last 12 months shares the sentiment that the article talks about.

And every US conservative I’ve talked to seems to revel in it.

So everybody’s happy: Europeans hate us and the majority of the American people either likes to be hated or doesn’t care!

Once again, we contribute positively to world happiness. Aren’t we grand?

More’s to the point, most ‘British’ people are that includes several diverse cultures believe it or not, don’t give a damn about the US, or the rest of Europe. In fact what they are more bothered about is being labelled ‘Europeans’ when Europe more or less Eschew us and the cultures are all like chalk and cheese.

[quote]hspder wrote:
Solomon Grundy wrote:
A poll from Telegraph.co.uk about America.

Even though part of me agrees with the article, my ethical side compels me to admit that the UK Telegraph is pretty much as left wing biased as MSM can get.
[/quote]

That’s simply false. The Telegraph is the mainstream right-wing paper in Britain, sort of the mirror image of the Guardian, with the Times in the middle. It is certainly not a left-wing paper, not by British standards anyway. Obviously, British politics as a whole are to the left of U.S. politics on most issues, but the Telegraph is just not “as left wing biased as MSM can get.”

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
hspder wrote:
Solomon Grundy wrote:
A poll from Telegraph.co.uk about America.

Even though part of me agrees with the article, my ethical side compels me to admit that the UK Telegraph is pretty much as left wing biased as MSM can get.

That’s simply false. The Telegraph is the mainstream right-wing paper in Britain, sort of the mirror image of the Guardian, with the Times in the middle. It is certainly not a left-wing paper, not by British standards anyway. Obviously, British politics as a whole are to the left of U.S. politics on most issues, but the Telegraph is just not “as left wing biased as MSM can get.”[/quote]

Yep the Telegraph is a right-wing paper over here.

Just read that article and thought it would go into more depth but there’s certainly more than a hint of that in most Brits I discuss it with.

I have to make distinctions between the US and the US Government because most yanks I have met (including my brother in law!) are kind, friendly, open and intelligent. However, that only really extends to when I’ve met them on their home turf.

Maybe it’s the ‘holiday mentality’ but most Americans I meet in the UK have been stereotypical arrogant and obnoxious dicks. Sorry but it’s been the truth.

I’m fairly certain that the locals in any UK tourist hotspot (Majorca for example) would feel exactly the same way about us being dicks in their country.

I used to work with a load of Americans. They were more anti French anti Canadian than anything else. Although another WAS Canadian, it was hard to tell what he was saying.

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
That’s simply false. The Telegraph is the mainstream right-wing paper in Britain, sort of the mirror image of the Guardian, with the Times in the middle. It is certainly not a left-wing paper, not by British standards anyway. Obviously, British politics as a whole are to the left of U.S. politics on most issues, but the Telegraph is just not “as left wing biased as MSM can get.”[/quote]

I’m sorry, did the rest of my post make it obvious that I was being sarcastic? You know, all the conservatives saying MSM in the US is left-wing biased?

Again, sorry. I promise I’ll try to be clearer next time. :wink:

[quote]1-packlondoner wrote:
I’m fairly certain that the locals in any UK tourist hotspot (Majorca for example) would feel exactly the same way about us being dicks in their country.[/quote]

Well, I can say that every single English (not British – English) person I’ve met has, within 5 minutes, given be an almost uncontrollable urge to choke them with my bare hands. I don’t think “dick” begins to describe their utterly obnoxious, arrogant behavior and demeanor.

Of course, I may be biased, since all my UK friends are Welsh or Scottish. I think each and every one of them includes in their every single prayer a line asking for God to smite London off the face of the Earth, preferably taking the whole of England with it.

To this day, all my experiences have led me to think that they have a point…

Except for Cambridge. That’s where the (few) good English people hide away from the others.

[quote]hspder wrote:
1-packlondoner wrote:
I’m fairly certain that the locals in any UK tourist hotspot (Majorca for example) would feel exactly the same way about us being dicks in their country.

Well, I can say that every single English (not British – English) person I’ve met has, within 5 minutes, given be an almost uncontrollable urge to choke them with my bare hands. I don’t think “dick” begins to describe their utterly obnoxious, arrogant behavior and demeanor.

Of course, I may be biased, since all my UK friends are Welsh or Scottish. I think each and every one of them includes in their every single prayer a line asking for God to smite London off the face of the Earth, preferably taking the whole of England with it.

To this day, all my experiences have led me to think that they have a point…

Except for Cambridge. That’s where the (few) good English people hide away from the others.
[/quote]

Ha ha… Yep we DO have our moments. I’m a Londoner. Everyone else in England, let alone Britain, hates us.

[quote]1-packlondoner wrote:
hspder wrote:
1-packlondoner wrote:
I’m fairly certain that the locals in any UK tourist hotspot (Majorca for example) would feel exactly the same way about us being dicks in their country.

Well, I can say that every single English (not British – English) person I’ve met has, within 5 minutes, given be an almost uncontrollable urge to choke them with my bare hands. I don’t think “dick” begins to describe their utterly obnoxious, arrogant behavior and demeanor.

Of course, I may be biased, since all my UK friends are Welsh or Scottish. I think each and every one of them includes in their every single prayer a line asking for God to smite London off the face of the Earth, preferably taking the whole of England with it.

To this day, all my experiences have led me to think that they have a point…

Except for Cambridge. That’s where the (few) good English people hide away from the others.

Ha ha… Yep we DO have our moments. I’m a Londoner. Everyone else in England, let alone Britain, hates us.

[/quote]

Is there any ENglish people still in London ? Last time I was there, I heard no people speaking English, its like a fucking foreign country, oh and a dirty shit-hole !

As for Eastenders, that depression inducing bullshit makes people think all Londoners are filthy chavsters and cockney wankas !

No seriously.

[quote]hspder wrote:

Well, I can say that every single English (not British – English) person I’ve met has, within 5 minutes, given be an almost uncontrollable urge to choke them with my bare hands. I don’t think “dick” begins to describe their utterly obnoxious, arrogant behavior and demeanor. [/quote]

Really? I am not doubting your impression - I guess I would say I am surprised.

What exactly have they been arrogant about? Just looking to compare notes with my experiences with the English.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
hspder wrote:

Well, I can say that every single English (not British – English) person I’ve met has, within 5 minutes, given be an almost uncontrollable urge to choke them with my bare hands. I don’t think “dick” begins to describe their utterly obnoxious, arrogant behavior and demeanor.

Really? I am not doubting your impression - I guess I would say I am surprised.

What exactly have they been arrogant about? Just looking to compare notes with my experiences with the English.[/quote]

Basically, my feeling is that the English, in social situations, are always either drunk or behaving like they were drunk. So, think of a drunken person – that’s how the English I’ve met behave – always.

Having said that the Irish, Welsh and Scots do drink even more, but they seem to hold their liquor much better. NEVER, EVER try to out-drink an Irishman, Welshman or Scotsman. You’ll be in a coma before they even start dragging their speech. They developed that uncanny ability to hold liquor in order to consistently beat the English at something, and, after 50 generations of careful genetic manipulation they now have some kind of mutated super-liver that will take an almost unlimited amount of abuse.

It’s scary, fascinating and disturbing all at the same time…

[quote]hspder wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
hspder wrote:

Well, I can say that every single English (not British – English) person I’ve met has, within 5 minutes, given be an almost uncontrollable urge to choke them with my bare hands. I don’t think “dick” begins to describe their utterly obnoxious, arrogant behavior and demeanor.

Really? I am not doubting your impression - I guess I would say I am surprised.

What exactly have they been arrogant about? Just looking to compare notes with my experiences with the English.

Basically, my feeling is that the English, in social situations, are always either drunk or behaving like they were drunk. So, think of a drunken person – that’s how the English I’ve met behave – always.

Having said that the Irish, Welsh and Scots do drink even more, but they seem to hold their liquor much better. NEVER, EVER try to out-drink an Irishman, Welshman or Scotsman. You’ll be in a coma before they even start dragging their speech. They developed that uncanny ability to hold liquor in order to consistently beat the English at something, and, after 50 generations of careful genetic manipulation they now have some kind of mutated super-liver that will take an almost unlimited amount of abuse.

It’s scary, fascinating and disturbing all at the same time…
[/quote]

Lightweight.

Having spent some time in England, I must say that I found the English to be witty, charming, and hilarious.

I wager that most Americans are grateful for the steadfast support shown by our British Allies. I certainly am. I watched your Parliment in 2002-2003 debate going into Iraq. It was quite moving to watch our Mother Country stand with us in our time of need.

On a side note, I’ll bet even the abbers appreciate the English sacrifice.

I read this “poll” this morning for a appetizer, and watched discovery times as friedland(sp?) from the newyorktimes wandered around Europe and let the dinks tee off on America.

He was having “serious” discussions with some weaklings about whether saddam or George W. Bush was a larger terrorist.

I saw photos of my flag being trampled by 145 pound, smelly, little dinks.

I have to tell you, my thoughts weren’t pleasant.

I’m tired of the argument that there is some disconnect between our Government and our people. The majority of the American voting public knew exactly who they were electing in 2004. He told them exactly what he was going to do.

So shit-can that stupid argument. When you insult him, you insult the majority of us.

I ask the Anti-Americans to be intellectually honest with yourselves and with us.

On a semi-related note, I remember an Anti-American poster named “vroom” who, in 2004, gleefully pronounced that whoever won the election in 2004, he would attack that person and his Government.

Therefore, all of us would be encompassed in his Anti-American vitriole.

He was and is not alone in that sentiment.

In the final analysis, our actions in this war, I am confident, will be found to have averted much more horror and bloodshed. For those of us who have studied the patterns of sociopathic dictators, regimes, and movements, the danger was clear.

On this July 4th weekend, I think it’s important to remember that if a poll was taken, our Revolution would not have happened.

You can look up the percentage that historians view as Patriots, Loyalists, or neutral.

You’ll find some shocking numbers.

This war and today’s poll/show remind me of one of Abraham Lincoln’s quotes:
“If the end brings me out right, what is said against me won’t amount to anything. If the end brings me out wrong, 10,000 angels swearing I was right wouldn’t make any difference.”

Happy Fourth of July!!!

JeffR

I wish we would stop sending our young people and a lot of our money out to keep order in this shithole world — but then it would resemble Zimbabwe or Dafur or some other hellhole like that.

Amazing how most think that the world would remain a reasonably ordered place w/o the US MArines (and similar) ready to go with short notice.

Next time you fill up the tank of your truck or buy that squat rack made in China, think of all that went in to getting it to you. Realize that, w/o the overwhelming power and policing by the USA, the oil well would’ve been blown up, the ship would’ve been pirated, and so forth, AND no greedy capitalist would invest outside his country because of all the risks. (HSPDER can attest to this.)

The rest of the civilised world should actually send $$$ to help the US police the globe. Tell that to the bugwits in that poll.

HH

[quote]hspder wrote:

Basically, my feeling is that the English, in social situations, are always either drunk or behaving like they were drunk. So, think of a drunken person – that’s how the English I’ve met behave – always.[/quote]

I can see where you are coming from. And I have experienced a great deal of snobbery when I have been in or around London(ers). I was once in a car with an Englishman in France for an hour and a half debating the superiority of cricket over baseball - this after just meeting me and me not even remotely mentioning sports. I had no particular ax to grind - I don’t know much about cricket anyway - but he insisted on bragging the entire trip.

But though slightly annoying, he was
essentially harmless.

I agree - and while the Irish get all the credit, my experience has suggested the Scots are the real elite troops in drinking wars.

Austrians are phenomenal drinkers as well. A great people. :>

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
hspder wrote:

Basically, my feeling is that the English, in social situations, are always either drunk or behaving like they were drunk. So, think of a drunken person – that’s how the English I’ve met behave – always.

I can see where you are coming from. And I have experienced a great deal of snobbery when I have been in or around London(ers). I was once in a car with an Englishman in France for an hour and a half debating the superiority of cricket over baseball - this after just meeting me and me not even remotely mentioning sports. I had no particular ax to grind - I don’t know much about cricket anyway - but he insisted on bragging the entire trip.

But though slightly annoying, he was
essentially harmless.

Having said that the Irish, Welsh and Scots do drink even more, but they seem to hold their liquor much better. NEVER, EVER try to out-drink an Irishman, Welshman or Scotsman. You’ll be in a coma before they even start dragging their speech. They developed that uncanny ability to hold liquor in order to consistently beat the English at something, and, after 50 generations of careful genetic manipulation they now have some kind of mutated super-liver that will take an almost unlimited amount of abuse.

I agree - and while the Irish get all the credit, my experience has suggested the Scots are the real elite troops in drinking wars.

Austrians are phenomenal drinkers as well. A great people. :>[/quote]

Well both my parents are Scots so it must a genetic thing to be able to consume vast quantities of booze and still keep it together.

[quote]Dr. Stig wrote:
1-packlondoner wrote:
hspder wrote:
1-packlondoner wrote:
I’m fairly certain that the locals in any UK tourist hotspot (Majorca for example) would feel exactly the same way about us being dicks in their country.

Well, I can say that every single English (not British – English) person I’ve met has, within 5 minutes, given be an almost uncontrollable urge to choke them with my bare hands. I don’t think “dick” begins to describe their utterly obnoxious, arrogant behavior and demeanor.

Of course, I may be biased, since all my UK friends are Welsh or Scottish. I think each and every one of them includes in their every single prayer a line asking for God to smite London off the face of the Earth, preferably taking the whole of England with it.

To this day, all my experiences have led me to think that they have a point…

Except for Cambridge. That’s where the (few) good English people hide away from the others.

Ha ha… Yep we DO have our moments. I’m a Londoner. Everyone else in England, let alone Britain, hates us.

Is there any ENglish people still in London ? Last time I was there, I heard no people speaking English, its like a fucking foreign country, oh and a dirty shit-hole !

As for Eastenders, that depression inducing bullshit makes people think all Londoners are filthy chavsters and cockney wankas !

No seriously.[/quote]

Ha ha yeah there’ still some of us here, keeping it real. Paying through the nose for everything and subsidising the rest of the country but just getting back all the hate…

Wow… I’m starting to sound like the yanks that demand everyone be gratfeul for them invading Iraq or deigning to join in WW2. :wink:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I wish we would stop sending our young people and a lot of our money out to keep order in this shithole world —

HH[/quote]

Not half as much as the rest of the world wishes it.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
AND no greedy capitalist would invest outside his country because of all the risks. (HSPDER can attest to this.)[/quote]

Hey, don’t drag me into this! Here was I, enjoying my week of vacation, and you had to bring me into yet another Economic discussion? I’m on a break! Leave me alone! :slight_smile:

OK, OK, I bite.

You are actually incorrect. Although it is quite uncanny how risk adverse most people are (explaining that risk adversity and why so few have the risk-taking-entrepreneurial-mindset that we try to cultivate here at Stanford is actually one of the Holy Grails of Economy – my theory is basically that it’s because most people are incredibly dumb, impulsive and short-sighted, but some of my colleagues somehow feel that is too harsh of me), there would ALWAYS be people willing to take risks.

The question for entrepreneurs is much more one of potential profit than of risk – and usually more risk means more potential profit, so it is quite possible that if the risk increased, the investments actually increased too.

Case in point: most American companies are pulling away from Europe and moving into Asia, even though Asia is STILL much riskier than Europe is or ever was? Why? Potential profit. Europe is a safe, low-risk, low-profit bet, like bonds, but Asia is the high-risk+low-cost+high-reward call.

If China had remained fully closed like before, we couldn’t invest there at all, even if we wanted. The problem was not risk, the problem was that there was no potential profit to be made there, since they wouldn’t let us in!

Having said that, there are two other points to be taken into account:

First, China changed its policy more as a result of necessity than military pressure from the US; China doesn’t fear us at all – they only play nice because it’s their best ECONOMIC interest to do so, not because of our Marines. They found out, ON THEIR OWN, that the value for THEM of being open to us greedy Americans.

Of course, they allow us to invest there in our own terms, and every time an American company invests there, in the terms of the Chinese (which include enforcing censorship) the principles of Freedom and Democracy that once represented what America stood for die a little.

Second, it is my firm belief that we’d all be much better off economically if China had stayed closed. Less competition means more money to us.

No wonder my arguments with ex-Clinton advisors tend to be a lot more contentious than with Pat Buchanan wannabes. I might have liked a lot of things about Bill Clinton’s policies, but his (and Al Gore’s…) policy with regards to China is NOT one of them.