US/Mexico Border: The Point?

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]rainjack wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
. If you shorten the supply of labor the demand increases and so do wages

I don’t disagree with that. But you seem to blame evil big business for supporting this bill, when you can just as easily blame the pro illegal alien crowd.

My point is that all the politicians see is an untapped market of potential voters. They could care less about the impact it will have on the economy, the welfare system, or anything else. They just see voters. [/quote]

The politicians may see it as a voting block but the Mexican race in America is going to have to step up to the plate and vote.
The Phoenix march supposedly was set up to collect voter registration but they only collected less than a hundred for 50.000 marchers
As far as big business I say follow the money

22

John Derbyshire responds to Arlen Specter’s recitation of talking points regarding the Senate’s version of the immigration bill:

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZWEzMzc2ODg3N2U2MWNmMzgxYjQ3ZTEzNDYwMGFlYjA=

Here is Specter on some earlier issues:

"Not so, said Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., chairman of the Judiciary Committee, in a rebuttal to weeks of debate. 'They have to pay a fine. They have to undergo a criminal background check. They have to pay back taxes, they have to learn English and they have to go to the back of the line,' he said, referring to illegal immigrants who would apply for citizenship."

Let’s take it slowly, folk.

?-“They have to pay a fine.” Less, in many cases, than what they paid the smugglers to bring them in.

?-“They have to undergo a criminal background check.” Don’t worry, folks, we have complete access to the criminal justice databases of Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala, etc. … Which, by the way, are scrupulously maintained. We have their governments’ assurances on that. Oh, and we have the several million federal investigators needed to carry out those background checks already under training, and their salaries and expenses all appropriated in Congress.

?-“They have to pay back taxes.” Based on their own, unverifiable statements about how many crumpled dollar bills were pressed into their hands at the end of each day’s work. (Are they allowed to deduct the cut they pay to the jefe? Come to think of it: is the smuggler’s fee tax-deductible?) And note, note well, poor citizen: They only have to pay taxes on three of the past five years. This is a deal YOU CANNOT GET. “IRS” now stands for “Immigrant Relief and Sustenance.”

?-“They have to learn English.” No they don’t. They have to show they have signed up for an ESL (English as Second Language) course, that’s all. They don’t have to, like, attend. Test of proficiency? There’s supposed to be one already for citizenship. Friend, I have attended two citizenship ceremonies (me, wife). There were people taking the oath who could barely manage “Hello.” One of the new citizens could not understand any of the Marshal’s instructions; fortunately he had a relative at hand to translate them into Cantonese for him.

?-“They have to go to the back of the line.” What line? The only line that matters to illegal immigrants is the one for lawful U.S. residence. (You know, the one Filipinos wait 24 years on, sitting back home in Manila.) And even that line doesn’t matter to them any more because THEY ARE ALREADY HERE. Citizenship? Eh, maybe… ma?ana. The kids got it by birth, that’s the main thing. And jury duty is, you know, a real drag.

23

This is about cheap labor and new voters.

DC does not care about us.

24

If you are pissed at the Senate bill like I am, make your voice known. Let your spineless worm senators who voted for it know you will not vote for them again and get as many people as you can to do the same. They are not following the will of their constituents and they should pay dearly for it. The House had it right, crack down first and see where that leaves us. They can always work on the guest worker program later. The Senate way will mean amnesty for those who are hear and many more able to come here now and enforcement perhaps sometime, probably never just like last time. I don’t know what to say to lothario, you are wrong. We are not going to annex Mexico. Right now Mexico is annexing us.

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[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
This is about cheap labor and new voters.

DC does not care about us.[/quote]

On this we will agree.

26

[quote]Pretzel Logic wrote:
I don’t know what to say to lothario, you are wrong. We are not going to annex Mexico. Right now Mexico is annexing us. [/quote]

So we are just a bunch of bitches, then? The USA is just bending over?

Please relax. When an amoeba absorbs a food item, it retracts in itself slightly before engulfing its prey and digesting it.

This is all very simple. We get our prey to come to America, digest them, and then annex their land. IF in the process of digesting our guest workers, our culture gains a slight tint of mexican culture, we are all the richer for it.

That “tint” will also make us that much more appealing to the remainder of Mexico when we approach them with the idea of joining with us.

“Well, all my ninos and ninas are already over there working and living, we might as well just become part of America already. Pass the tequila.”

What is so scary about this? :slight_smile:

27

Lothario -

I think you are mistaking the amoeba with the leech. You know - the uninvited parasite that attaches to a host and sucks the blood out of it?

When I see the immigration bill - I see leeches lined up to suck us dry - not prey we can absorb.

28

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Lothario -

I think you are mistaking the amoeba with the leech. You know - the uninvited parasite that attaches to a host and sucks the blood out of it?

When I see the immigration bill - I see leeches lined up to suck us dry - not prey we can absorb. [/quote]

Understood, RJ. Please see my previous post the page before about this. I was concerned about this as well until I realized what the actual stats for Welfare etc. are. Here’s the link again:

Think about this. The problem with illegals isn’t going to go away by ignoring it. Let’s get them into the system, and stop forcing them to go around the rules. Let’s convert them from unwelcome Mexicans into welcome Americans.

The whole issue of them not wanting to blend and assimilate is our fault just as much as theirs. Once we make this place “Mexican-friendly”, the alienation they feel will stop. They will do things by the rules if we give them a chance.

And sure, some of them will stay assholes… that’s because there’s assholes everywhere you go. But most of the immigrants I have seen will work their fucking asses off like no tomorrow. I’m just saying that these can be good people if we just give them a chance, man!

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And, as an addendum to the above:

I’d like to also point out how retarded our current immigration policy for everybody is. People on waiting lists forever, etc. It’s stupid.

My idea for a better way to do things involves a throwback to the “give me your tired and poor,” but with the warning that “… but we are not going to feed you and take care of you for free. This is the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Free Lunch. If you wanna freeload, go to the EU.”

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Here’s something I found:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/05/21/IMMIGRATION.TMP

We have begun phagocytosis. One tenth of Mexico has already been engulfed.

Mmmm… tastes like tacos. :slight_smile:

(bonus points if anybody knows the TV reference I just made)

31

I have read, with interest, this entire thread. I think we are missing the point here.

The vast majority of Americans, myself included, according to recent polls, have no problem with LEGAL IMMIGRATION at all.

However, to equate LEGAL IMMIGRATION with ILLEGAL BORDER CROSSING is the same as equating an invited guest to stay over your house with someone breaking and entering and then taking up residence in your basement. Would we say the burgler has the “right” to stay? To be treated as if he owns your house? Of course not!

Illegal aliens – and that is what they are – should not benefit from their illegal deed of crossing our border against our laws. The fact that both the Dems and the Republicans seem to have no problem with confering rights and benefits on law breakers leads me to conclude that we despirately need TERM LIMITS.

Term limits on both the Senate and the House would remove the political gain of this situation because the aim of the lawmakers wouldn’t be about votes and getting elected again and again – perhaps they would do what is right for America.

No Xenophobia here! We just wish to see America’s laws enforced.

32

It’s my understanding that all of the bills that have a chance of passing will forgive illegals who have used stolen or fraudulent SSNs.

Until my wife and I are reimbursed for the hassle of being audited by the IRS 4 times in a four year period for under-reporting income earned by the illegal who stole my wife’s identity,

until my wife and I are reimbursed for the countless hours spent sitting in lines at the Social Security office trying to straighten out her records,

until my wife and I are reimbursed for the hassle and countless hours spent making copies of every record imaginable, getting police reports, having things notarized, contacting credit bureaus, collection agencies, and creditors,

until my wife and I are reimbursed for the extra interest we’ve paid over the years because my wife’s credit rating was ruined by an illegal,

and until the illegal who caused all of this comes to my home and apologizes to my children and explains to them that the reason they still live in an apartment is because my wife’s credit rating only qualified us to get us a 11% interest rate on a sub-prime mortgage with a pre-payment penalty,

I will make it my mission in life to destroy everyone in Congress who votes to allow ID theft to be forgiven.

33

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:

Do you know what your links tell me? Don’t be a ditchdigger. There’s not a future filled with Ferraris and big-titted blondes in it. [/quote]

Great call. Your posts on this issue make a lot of sense.

I’m all for securing our borders, even though it’s pretty hard to believe this will stop terrorists from getting through (the main reason Bush’s offensive grand strategy against terrorism makes sense, however horribly it’s been executed), but the U.S. needs more immigration, not less. Particularly in the high tech industry, I forget the name for those visas, but the Senate plan calls for quadrupling them, which is a good start. Our universities and high tech companies are losing their competitive edge to China, India, and others because of unecessary, paranoid security measures post-9/11.