US Guantanamo Tribunals 'Illegal'

Here’s one take on the case:

Making Sense of the Hamdan Ruling
June 29, 2006 2:44 p.m.

In a lengthy opinion, the Supreme Court today ruled 5-3 that the “structures and procedures” of the current U.S. military’s current terrorism tribunal system violate both military rules and the Geneva Conventions. Scott Silliman, a former military lawyer and executive director of Duke University Law School’s Center on Law, Ethics and National Security spoke with WSJ.com’s Ashby Jones about the ruling in the case of Hamdan v. Rumsfeld.

WSJ: What does the ruling mean for the Bush administration?

Scott Silliman: I’ve been asked if this is a “stinging rebuke” to the administration, and frankly I don’t think it is. It’s a defeat, no question, but I wouldn’t cast it in that strong of language.

WSJ: Why not?

Silliman: I think that of the 450 or so detainees being held at Guantanamo, only 15 to 18 will actually go in front of a tribunal. International law dictates that in order for a country to bring a case against an enemy combatant like Mr. Hamdan it has to allege a specific violation of the “law of war.” [The Geneva Conventions are part of the “law of war.”] That is, the government has to have evidence of a specific crime, like that a specific detainee killed an innocent civilian. But for the vast majority of the detainees, the administration doesn’t have evidence of specific crimes. Just being an “enemy combatant” is not a crime under the law of war.

WSJ: So what’s likely to happen to the majority of the detainees?

Silliman: It’s unclear. For now, they’ll stay at Guantanamo. The Bush administration is coming under increased pressure to move the detainees back to their countries of origin, but the administration wants a guarantee that they’ll be detained in those countries.

WSJ: But the government claims it had specific evidence of a crime – that of conspiracy – against Mr. Hamdan. Why wasn’t that enough to bring a case against him?

Silliman: Well, several members of the court – four actually – ruled that the crime of conspiracy doesn’t exist under the “law of war,” which includes the Geneva Conventions. Justice Kennedy [who joined other parts of the majority’s opinion] didn’t join that part of the opinion because he apparently felt the court didn’t need to go that far, that it didn’t need to reach the conspiracy issue.

WSJ: Why not?

Silliman: Because the court ruled that the tribunals are governed by – and violate – the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which follows the “law of war.” The “law of war” dictates that the same procedural safeguards afforded in U.S. courts-martial also need to be afforded to enemy combatants. For instance, courts-martial allow the accused the right to be present at his trial, and have certain rules on the admissibility of evidence. The tribunals the administration had set up didn’t have these safeguards, and therefore didn’t pass muster with the court. Therefore, at least in Justice Kennedy’s mind, the court didn’t need to reach the conspiracy issue.

WSJ: Did the makeup of the 5-3 decision surprise you?

Silliman: Not at all. I thought all along that Justice Kennedy’s vote would be the key one to watch. I figured that [Souter, Stevens, Ginsburg and Breyer] would vote in a bloc, as would Alito, Thomas and Scalia. The big question in my mind was Kennedy.

WSJ: Before reaching the “merits” of the case, the court had to wrestle with a jurisdictional issue. Explain to us what was at stake there.

Silliman: A lot was at stake there. Last December Congress passed a law [the Detainee Treatment Act] that took away the federal courts’ power to hear habeus corpus motions made by Guantanamo detainees. In other words, the law stripped the detainees of their right to challenge their detentions in federal court. The issue in front of the Supreme Court was whether that law should apply to Mr. Hamdan, given that the law wasn’t passed at the time Mr. Hamdan was granted his day in federal court. The court ruled that if Congress had intended for the DTA to apply retroactively, it would have said that specifically in the law.

WSJ: But that portion of the DTA will still apply to those detainees who filed for federal court review after Dec. 30 of last year? They won’t be able to challenge their detentions in federal court?

Silliman: That’s right.

WSJ: Lots has been written in recent months about how much the Supreme Court should be looking to international law to help guide its decision-making. Does the ruling today shed any light on where the court stands on this issue?

Silliman: I don’t think so. The court looked to the Geneva Conventions because they help define “the law of war,” which is followed by the military under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, a U.S. law. It’s not like the court just on its own decided to look to the Geneva Conventions. This is more of a rare case where U.S. law and international law happen to intersect.

WSJ: So what happens now? What does this decision mean for Mr. Hamdan and others like him?

Silliman: I read the decision as the court telling the Bush administration, “Look, you deviated too far from court-martial procedures. These are what need to apply.” In other words, if you’re going to try these folks, you’ve got to afford them the procedural rights they’d get were they tried in a U.S. court martial. The president set the bar too low. Now he’s got to drive it back up.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Boston, the constitution sets limits… and without changing the constitution, those limits can’t be ignored.[/quote]

vroom,

What part of the Constitution was being violated by the President here? I didn’t see that part of the ruling?

On the other hand, I’m saying I think the court overstepped its Constitutional authority.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Boston, the constitution sets limits… and without changing the constitution, those limits can’t be ignored.[/quote]

So, do tell, Vroom - what are those limits?

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Here’s one take on the case:

WSJ: Before reaching the “merits” of the case, the court had to wrestle with a jurisdictional issue. Explain to us what was at stake there.

Silliman: A lot was at stake there. Last December Congress passed a law [the Detainee Treatment Act] that took away the federal courts’ power to hear habeus corpus motions made by Guantanamo detainees. In other words, the law stripped the detainees of their right to challenge their detentions in federal court. The issue in front of the Supreme Court was whether that law should apply to Mr. Hamdan, given that the law wasn’t passed at the time Mr. Hamdan was granted his day in federal court. The court ruled that if Congress had intended for the DTA to apply retroactively, it would have said that specifically in the law.
[/quote]

So judicial usurpation isn’t so clear cut now, without even debating limiting judical oversight. If Hamdan wasn’t expressly excluded wouldn’t his review be grandfathered in?

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:

One initial note. People are quite upset around here with what they perceive as executive usurpations of power. What about judicial usurpation of power? Congress passed a law, that the president signed, specifically stripping the courts’ jurisdiction over these matters, the Detainee Treatment Act.[/quote]

I think this needs to be explored more.

Why is it that Bush critics are so worried about an elected ‘dictator’ - one with term limits, I might add - but seem to be so comfortable with a Secular Papacy?

[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:
Here’s one take on the case:

WSJ: Before reaching the “merits” of the case, the court had to wrestle with a jurisdictional issue. Explain to us what was at stake there.

Silliman: A lot was at stake there. Last December Congress passed a law [the Detainee Treatment Act] that took away the federal courts’ power to hear habeus corpus motions made by Guantanamo detainees. In other words, the law stripped the detainees of their right to challenge their detentions in federal court. The issue in front of the Supreme Court was whether that law should apply to Mr. Hamdan, given that the law wasn’t passed at the time Mr. Hamdan was granted his day in federal court. The court ruled that if Congress had intended for the DTA to apply retroactively, it would have said that specifically in the law.

ExNole wrote:
So judicial usurpation isn’t so clear cut now, without even debating limiting judical oversight. If Hamdan wasn’t expressly excluded wouldn’t his review be grandfathered in?[/quote]

Tell ya what:

Read the Scalia dissent and tell me what you think – we’ll put this one in our “to be discussed after reading 180+ pages” too.

Actually, on second thought: no, as the court either willfully misconstrued, or construed with severe negligence, the statute.

“Paragraphs (2) and (3) of subsection (e) shall apply with respect to any claim whose review is governed by one of such paragraphs and that is pending on or after the date of the enactment of this Act.”

Now here’s the trouble. Hamdan’s case is an application for a writ of habeas corpus, and those cases are shut down altogether, without reference to their timing or the stage they have reached as of the law’s enactment, in paragraph (1) of subsection (e). Paragraphs (2) and (3) then go on to describe the new process for review of rulings made by the military tribunals at Guantanamo, funneling that review exclusively through the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit.

Hamdan’s case belongs in that new process, not before the Supreme Court. As a habeas matter, which is its current posture before the high court, Hamdan’s case falls entirely outside the ambit of the statutory language.

The proper resolution is that Hamdan’s claim couldn’t be taken up originally by a federal court.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:

One initial note. People are quite upset around here with what they perceive as executive usurpations of power. What about judicial usurpation of power? Congress passed a law, that the president signed, specifically stripping the courts’ jurisdiction over these matters, the Detainee Treatment Act.

I think this needs to be explored more.

Why is it that Bush critics are so worried about an elected ‘dictator’ - one with term limits, I might add - but seem to be so comfortable with a Secular Papacy?[/quote]

It’s part and parcel of the Souter-Stevens-Ginsburg-Breyer block, with whom Kennedy joins sometimes.

They very much like extending their authority too.

For instance, in a previous case on related subject matter, John Paul Stevens extended the reach of the court by playing with the definition of “jurisdiction.” In Rasul, the relevant statute provided that a writ of habeas corpus may be granted by a federal judge within his jurisdiction, meaning within his judicial district. Stevens decided that language meant that a federal judge’s jurisdiction extended to any territory over which the U.S. exercises control, i.e., Guantanamo Bay ? a military base located in a foreign country.

That was a nice one – Stevens also reversed over 50-years of precedent. In Johnson v. Eisentrager, the USSC held it that alien combatants did not have access to U.S. civilian courts.

[quote]makkun wrote:
I can’t deny that I smile while I write this - thank you US Supreme Court, you have shown that the US is indeed a nation ruled by the law and concern for humanity!

Makkun

The US Supreme Court has ruled that the Bush administration does not have the authority to try terrorism suspects by military tribunal.

The US supreme court ruled today that the US president, George Bush, overstepped his authority in creating military war crimes trials for detainees at Guant?namo Bay.

[/quote]

Funny how you seem to be so gleeful over this. Can we send these guys to live in England now? Do you want them?

In any case, I am not a lawyer but it is my understanding of the ruling that these guys still could be tried in a military court as long as Congress agrees to this.

Anyway, let us know if we can put them on the next British Airways flight to live England…

steveo5801,

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
[…]Funny how you seem to be so gleeful over this. Can we send these guys to live in England now? Do you want them?

In any case, I am not a lawyer but it is my understanding of the ruling that these guys still could be tried in a military court as long as Congress agrees to this.

Anyway, let us know if we can put them on the next British Airways flight to live England…[/quote]

You misinterpret me - I’m not gleeful because Bush lost or anything - I am genuinely happy that there has been decision over an often criticised system, which many have found inappropriate.

I must admit I haven’t had the time yet to read all of BBs notes on this, but I’m sure there is plenty of legal maneuovering space for the current US government to keep people in Gitmo. But this is an important step to get Bush to give it up - and he has indicated while visiting Europe that he wants out of this disgrace.

But, given the fact that these people (whatever they may have done) have been there for years without a proper trial - yes, it’s a good day. Whatever they have done deserves to be handled properly; just locking them away is not an option for a free and democratic state. And given the fact how many have been freed without any further charges (so far I think 12 have been sent back to the UK - without any further charges!) is indeed a sign that the whole system is flawed.

So - without any glee: Thanks Supreme Court for championing justice!

Makkun

[quote]makkun wrote:

Thanks Supreme Court for championing justice!

Makkun[/quote]

For the record, my ‘scorecard’ (not being a lawyer, calling it an ‘assessment’ seems to officious):

-Are they unlawful combatants?
Depends, they certainly aren’t uniformed lawful combatants acting on behalf of a recognized foreign government, ergo nor are they POWs, or citizens. See below.

-Are they subject to International Humanitarian Law and/or GC?
Yes, unfortunately neither delineate directly the identification or treatment of unlawful combatants. Torturing them isn’t necessarily appropriate however, elevating their status to POW or citizens is equally inappropriate.

-Are they subject to US civil/criminal law?
No, they aren’t citizens and even lawful combatants aren’t necessarily afforded this ‘luxury’.

-Regardless of International Policy is the President legally capable of taking action as granted to him by congress?
Yes, International Law isn’t US Law and we aren’t bound by it (any more than any other nation) if the International Law were clear, the USSC’s decision is still invalid as per checks and balances even though it may agree with more international agendas.

-Is the USSC capable of superceding/invalidating the above?
No, due to checks and balances, had Congress not backed the President, the USSC would be free to rule the legality. 1/3 of the government ‘invalidating’ the other 2/3 is the antithesis of ‘checks and balances’.

The more I read about this, the more shocked I get that no one really thought of this ‘unlawful combatant’ issue beforehand.

Had this been set up a priori 9/11 and the War on Terror (as much of it was), would you still consider it championing justice? If Kennedy were detaining and trying Russian spies via military tribunal would the USSC have been ‘championing justice’ by ruling against him?

[quote]lucasa wrote:
makkun wrote:

Thanks Supreme Court for championing justice!

Makkun

For the record, my ‘scorecard’ (not being a lawyer, calling it an ‘assessment’ seems to officious):

-Are they unlawful combatants?
Depends, they certainly aren’t uniformed lawful combatants acting on behalf of a recognized foreign government, ergo nor are they POWs, or citizens. See below.

-Are they subject to International Humanitarian Law and/or GC?
Yes, unfortunately neither delineate directly the identification or treatment of unlawful combatants. Torturing them isn’t necessarily appropriate however, elevating their status to POW or citizens is equally inappropriate.

-Are they subject to US civil/criminal law?
No, they aren’t citizens and even lawful combatants aren’t necessarily afforded this ‘luxury’.

-Regardless of International Policy is the President legally capable of taking action as granted to him by congress?
Yes, International Law isn’t US Law and we aren’t bound by it (any more than any other nation) if the International Law were clear, the USSC’s decision is still invalid as per checks and balances even though it may agree with more international agendas.

-Is the USSC capable of superceding/invalidating the above?
No, due to checks and balances, had Congress not backed the President, the USSC would be free to rule the legality. 1/3 of the government ‘invalidating’ the other 2/3 is the antithesis of ‘checks and balances’.

The more I read about this, the more shocked I get that no one really thought of this ‘unlawful combatant’ issue beforehand.

Had this been set up a priori 9/11 and the War on Terror (as much of it was), would you still consider it championing justice? If Kennedy were detaining and trying Russian spies via military tribunal would the USSC have been ‘championing justice’ by ruling against him?[/quote]

Russian spies were captured and executed , normal courts were perfectly capable of doing that.

What you do not get is that there are people in Guantanamo and Guantanamo like institutions that have never seen a battlefield but were kidnapped by the US or its allies.

If the US government went just one step furter and just killed all those kidnapped by mistake or because they were a nuisance to some Pakistani bureaucrat, to cover up their mistakes, than they would no longer fight the enemy, they would have become and be the enemy.

Again, not only “unlawful combatants”, ordinary people arrested and held without a trial , being let go, after rather harsh treatment still did not produce useful information.

Could happen to you, you know and if some other country started to treat US citizens that way, then what?

[quote]orion wrote:

Russian spies were captured and executed , normal courts were perfectly capable of doing that.[/quote]

Russian spies or American citizens (native-born or otherwise) acting on behalf of Russia? To my knowledge, the Rosenbergs were the only ones executed and they were citizens, and the majority of others tried were citizens and therefore subject to US law on US soil. However, I’m unaware of the fate of every spy (maybe even a majority) ever captured by the US. Saudi/Iraqi/Irani/Pakestani/etc./etc. citizens perpetrating or conspiring to perpetrate on foreign soil aren’t the jurisdication of the US judicial system, IMO. Although, I don’t currently sit on the USSC.

[quote]What you do not get is that there are people in Guantanamo and Guantanamo like institutions that have never seen a battlefield but were kidnapped by the US or its allies.

If the US government went just one step furter and just killed all those kidnapped by mistake or because they were a nuisance to some Pakistani bureaucrat, to cover up their mistakes, than they would no longer fight the enemy, they would have become and be the enemy.[/quote]

  1. I’d say that’s two steps, skip the tribunal and execute them at will. Has anyone actually been executed yet?

  2. If the US government did do that and got caught, they’d have to answer to the electorate and international community (Well, part of the government would). Our adversaries post it on the internet and are held accountable only by coalition forces.

This is my point, how do you discern ordinary people from dissident citizens from non-uniformed guerillas from terrorists or other unlawful combatants? Once you’ve made the distinction, where do they fall in terms of treatment? If you pay someone to commit a terrorist act does that make you a combatant? Can you detain someone for merely funding a terrorist act? For how long? If these laws are violated who decides what action to take (not the USSC).

In the absence of this, I can’t be overly critical of the Administration and it’s actions.

  1. In countries outside the US, they most certainly treat non-combatant/‘unlawful combatant’ US citizens worse or haven’t you seen the videos? American non-combatants have been targets in various regions for the last quarter century.

  2. You are perfectly right and I would expect that were a group of US citizens to do the same thing (declare war against an entire race of people w/o approval from our government and then effect said war indiscriminately/selectively against civilian targets on foreign soil) there would be equal violations of habeas corpus. However, the odds are very much against it happening to me.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:

Actually, on second thought: no, as the court either willfully misconstrued, or construed with severe negligence, the statute.

“Paragraphs (2) and (3) of subsection (e) shall apply with respect to any claim whose review is governed by one of such paragraphs and that is pending on or after the date of the enactment of this Act.”

Now here’s the trouble. Hamdan’s case is an application for a writ of habeas corpus, and those cases are shut down altogether, without reference to their timing or the stage they have reached as of the law’s enactment, in paragraph (1) of subsection (e). Paragraphs (2) and (3) then go on to describe the new process for review of rulings made by the military tribunals at Guantanamo, funneling that review exclusively through the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit.

Hamdan’s case belongs in that new process, not before the Supreme Court. As a habeas matter, which is its current posture before the high court, Hamdan’s case falls entirely outside the ambit of the statutory language.

The proper resolution is that Hamdan’s claim couldn’t be taken up originally by a federal court.[/quote]

I havn’t made it to Scalia yet, and his argument may have merits, but I thought I’d throw this out just to continue the dialog.

Taken from pg 21 (160 more to go!)

“A familiar principle of statutory construction, relevant both in Lindh and here, is that a negative inference may be drawn from the exclusion of language from one statutory provision that is included inother provisions of the same statute.”

If Congress took the time to to explicitly state that only sections 2 and 3 applied to pending cases, a negative inference can be made that section one does not.

The footnote #10 on pg22 further reinforces this by statements made by Sen Levin about an earlier draft of the bill which included section one in the pending cases clause.

When I make it to Scalia I’ll post again.

lucasa,

orion mostly made my point, but let me clarify it once more (in addition to the many threads we have on this on which I have posted):

Many of the men held in Guantanamo are surely what we would call terrorists. Many of them would or have perpetrated acts of violence against others. But many of them have also been proven to be innocent and have been sent home. This has clearly proven that the general suspicion of guilt (which is innaceptable anyway) regarding them cannot be upheld.

For years this camp has been filled with foreigners(including minors) who have been taken from other countries(some of them as part of the “war” on terror, some of them as part of more criminal investigations) and put into a place where they don’t get a chance to proove their innocence - and the movement to use some kind of process on them has been disgustingly slow.

I recognise that there can legal arguments constructed to defend this somehow. But there is no moral ground to do so: If the US captures people as part of what the US has declared a “war”, they should be treated as POWs. There was no need to create a new category, and I fear it was done purely to treat them as it fits the current US government best. It wasn’t necessary for spies in the cold war, and it’s not necessary now.

If they are captured as being some sort of criminal, they should be given rights as such. Instead they have been moved to a place where the US justice system does not apply (funny, if the US government was so sure about the legality of this), and they are not given a chance to a due and timely process of proving their innocence. 10 (out of like 400!) have been processed in what has been criticised from the beginning as innapropriate military tribunals.

There have been numerous criticisms by US and foreign organisations and governments that this is not acceptable behaviour for a country that is trying to champion freedom and democracy worldwide, and that more or less secret courts with classified evidence are innaceptable.

I am relieved and happy to see that the USSC has acknowledged that and the current US government has been made aware that this treatment is wrong. They have opened this pandora’s box, they have failed in this instance morally and it seems they are also failing legally - that has shamed the US as a whole and it is sad. That I am not happy about, as it reflects unnecessarily bad on the US’s genuine good intentions. But as I said in my original post, I am happy that this travesty may soon end.

Makkun

[quote]makkun wrote:

Many of the men held in Guantanamo are surely what we would call terrorists. Many of them would or have perpetrated acts of violence against others. But many of them have also been proven to be innocent and have been sent home. …[/quote]

Not proven innocent. Some have been let go for a variety of reasons. Only a few were mistaken identity. Some were guilty of associating with terrorists but deemed small fish not worth worrying about.

Many have been sent home, straight to prisons in their home countries.

[quote]makkun wrote:

I recognise that there can legal arguments constructed to defend this somehow. But there is no moral ground to do so: If the US captures people as part of what the US has declared a “war”, they should be treated as POWs. There was no need to create a new category, and I fear it was done purely to treat them as it fits the current US government best. It wasn’t necessary for spies in the cold war, and it’s not necessary now.[/quote]

But the Geneva Convention was set up to be a quid-pro-quo system. It provided that in order to be protected by the POW provisions, the combatants must follow the law of war: wear proper insignia, not target civilians, etc.

If you extend POW protections categorically to anyone, whether or not they follow the law of war, why bother putting the “if-then” language in there in the first place? Why single out the class of legitimate combatants in the text if the POW provision applies to all?

The moral ground to make the disctinction is simple - to provide an incentive for warring parties to follow the law of war. That was the entire point of the Geneva Convention - to hold otherwise is to gut the point of the provision and render it a nullity.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
makkun wrote:

But the Geneva Convention was set up to be a quid-pro-quo system. It provided that in order to be protected by the POW provisions, the combatants must follow the law of war: wear proper insignia, not target civilians, etc.

If you extend POW protections categorically to anyone, whether or not they follow the law of war, why bother putting the “if-then” language in there in the first place? Why single out the class of legitimate combatants in the text if the POW provision applies to all?

The moral ground to make the disctinction is simple - to provide an incentive for warring parties to follow the law of war. That was the entire point of the Geneva Convention - to hold otherwise is to gut the point of the provision and render it a nullity.[/quote]

thunderbolt: Are you defending the military tribunal system here or merely talking about POW status specifically?

Ok- I read the opinion, Breyer and Kennedy’s concurrences and Scalia’s dissent.

The jurisdictional issues are definitely tricky. I retract my previous comments about drafting history and floor comments, but I still think that the explicit retroactivity of sections 2 and 3, while not mentioning 1 is enough to warrant a negative inference.

Still, Scalia’s dissent is well argued, and I wish I knew more about Bruner and the other cases discussed.

I didn’t find Scalia’s Councilman argument convincing.

I think the inability of the government to specify the need for it’s departures from court martial proceedings make the commissions illegal under the UCMJ and law of war.

BB- made your way through the case yet?

Zap Branigan,

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
makkun wrote:

Many of the men held in Guantanamo are surely what we would call terrorists. Many of them would or have perpetrated acts of violence against others. But many of them have also been proven to be innocent and have been sent home. …

Not proven innocent. Some have been let go for a variety of reasons. Only a few were mistaken identity. Some were guilty of associating with terrorists but deemed small fish not worth worrying about.

Many have been sent home, straight to prisons in their home countries.
[/quote]

Slightly old numbers, but an interesting trend:

"[…]The release brings the total number of detainees to leave Guantanamo Bay to 232; 167 have been sent home and released, while 65 others have been transferred to the custody of foreign governments including Pakistan, Britain, Morocco, France, Russia and Saudi Arabia.[…]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2432-2005Apr19.html

That’s slightly less than 2/3rds who have been released as opposed to the ones that have been transferred into custody.

Makkun

thunderbolt23,

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
[…]But the Geneva Convention was set up to be a quid-pro-quo system. It provided that in order to be protected by the POW provisions, the combatants must follow the law of war: wear proper insignia, not target civilians, etc.

If you extend POW protections categorically to anyone, whether or not they follow the law of war, why bother putting the “if-then” language in there in the first place? Why single out the class of legitimate combatants in the text if the POW provision applies to all?

The moral ground to make the disctinction is simple - to provide an incentive for warring parties to follow the law of war. That was the entire point of the Geneva Convention - to hold otherwise is to gut the point of the provision and render it a nullity.[/quote]

I recognise that. Thanks for the info.

And I have given the alternative of putting people in front of real courts for real offenses the have allegedly perpetrated.

Moreover, given how many of the detainees have been released without further charges (after years of being detained), there can be no trust in the assurances of the US government that these people really deserve the treatment they have received.

I reiterate: A state driven by the desire to promote “western style democracy and freedom” cannot act in this way.

Makkun