T Nation

US - China Relations and Foreign Policy

So the Chinese consulate in Houston has been ordered vacated. Now that’s it’s empty we are searching it.

How should US/PRC relations be handled, and what’s the fallout do you think?


Spying is much like “ethics” in Congress.

In Congress; there is some nebulous “ethics threshold” that when crossed gets you in trouble.

The same with spying. Countries all tolerate a certain degree of spying as simply doing diplomatic business. Everyone does it. But there is some “spying threshold” that will get you sent home.

No argument there. It’s FP 101. But, ordering a consulate closed is an extremely strong move in terms of relations–not that they were anywhere near friendly to begin with of course. But this is clearly an escalation (not that it’s unwarranted).

I suppose my question is whether this was a strategic move or a Trump special.

One way or the other US-China relations are chilling hard.

The first shots fired in the new Cold War. Let’s just hope it stays cold. This wasn’t the first escalation. It’s the latest in a series of escalations. China’s border war with India, actions in the South China Sea. Just in the beginning of the year about a dozen university professors were arrested for espionage for the CCP. Then we have China starting the annexing of Hong Kong, which is a world wide crisis. The British are sure pissed about that.
Banning TikTok is next, well I don’t know if it’s next, but it’s on the list. They have already been caught sending private information to the CCP.

Indeed we are. We also just removed Huawei from the 5G network upgrades. 1/2 on the US request also - as this shit storm get worse - in the next 12-18 month there will be an “us and them” line in the sand between the USA and China. No one wants to be China’s side when that happens. So if we retained Chinese tech - we’d be out of the loop with everyone.

I would also add that in the “developing nations” race to join the top table - the UK has an interest in seeing India come out on top. We kinda dicked all over India for years. Ruined the place. BUT our upper class has old money out there. Lots of very power people stand to do very well if India surpasses China as the economic power or Asia.
Do not underestimate this part of it.


Not to mention that India is a true representative government, while China is …China.

While I’m not particularly troubled by the South China Sea–they’ve been dicking about there forever so it’s not new–the Hong Kong trouble is a MAJOR evolution.

I’d certainly hope you are correct about people wanting to be on the side of the USA vs China, but our current administration has me questioning that. They have managed to be far more inept that I feared.

Trump has 4 more years at most. China’s Government is permanent.

Yeah - this a major international statement. Hong Kong has always been “off limits”. We (the Brits) kinda made sure that was status quo. Politically its a slap in the face to go changing that. And one that we needed to respond to. Offering mass immigration is a somewhat wet but all we have. Its also possible that this has been done with the Trump divide in mind. What a better time to test the west’s dedication to the USA.

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Absolutely a slap in the face. I am quite sure it’s intentional, for the exact reason you mention. The premier may chat with Trump but it is quite certain that they’re not changing their goals whatsoever. This should not have been a surprise, and would not have been for a normal administration.

I am proud of the UK for doing this. It was a done deal before the pandemic as I understood it. Reversing course was a pleasant surprise.
I have heard smatterings that Italy may join the fray in the fight against China, they clearly have a right to be pissed.

I have also heard African countries are reconsidering Chinese business investments, but I will believe that when I see it. The CCP has money and tons of it and they have a hole in their pocket. And the Africans want that money and that investment. Extreme poverty doesn’t care what system feeds them until they are full.

I have been saying for years that Africa is a vastly untapped resource and I cannot imagine for the life of me why there hasn’t been massive investment there yet.

Well…genocide and child soldiers put a damper on business, as does the rampant corruption, but I understand your point. I do think there could be some form of investment–that has been a Chinese play for a couple decades now, and reasonably profitable for them as well.

Tit for tat. American consulate in Chengdu closed down.

It has been slowly ramping up over time.
Yes, the tragic wars’, like in Congo where horrific… Way, way, way more horrific than anything any of us with a computer has ever experienced, ever. But Africa is huge, so there is still a lot of room for growth and resources.
But anyway, CHina is Asshole!

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The deal to allow mass immigration? It was done during the pandemic.

Honestly - control. The West would rather invest a little and keep Africa as it is than invest a lot and have them on equal footing.

I mean if the West Coast of Africa ever had mass investment and had GENUINE governments in place they cold start to make rel money form the oil there. However the oil companies all form a cartel an refuse to pay a fair price for the rights to drill. They then prop up a puppet candidate for the top job and they have an easy in. The new government is not bothered by the “plight of the people” and we go round in circles.
Its all about money. The current system is keeping the rich, rich. And that’s all there is to it.

No I meant reversing the decision to allow Huawei to build infrastructure there.

I don’t think anybody was actively trying to keep Africa down, they just failed to see the opportunity there. When Southeast Asia opened up, all concentration went there. It was less of an investment for large return.
The problem with the ideology is that China was and is an active enemy of the US. The easy money ran over foresight. I knew this day would come. I had been talking about it since the '90’s. Even then I predicted our greatest global challenge was going to be China. I hate it when I am right because I am a pessimist.