just tbol only cycle 60mg/day, multivitamin, milk thistle, b complex. i woke up this morning and my nipples were all puffy and tender and sencitive. i no that tbol shouldnt cause gyno but this is confusing i took 60mg nolva earier. will the nolva be enough? shoukd i end the cycle now or can i just finish it of while taking nolva or should i just end it and start pct?
Dbol sides would show up much faster than that, so its pretty unlikely. Its more likely you are shut down and getting getting gyno from having no test. Dose up the nolva ASAP, finish the cycle and run the nolva into PCT.
I think he means his own test is shut down, so the high levels of E (as hes not running any E control at the moment) is aromatising. I dont think he means the conversion of test to E. At least thats all I think he COULD mean, I dont know.
Its a shame to see that most people are unaware that ANY steroid can cause gyno. Shutting down your test levels does NOT mean you have NO ESTROGEN in your system. Your body produces DHEA from the adrenals which can aromatise into estrogen along with a shitload of other hormones. Also, the DHT produced from 5A reduction is naturally a powerful antiestrogen. When this is gone, the balance shifts to an estrogenic enviroment when shut down.
THATS WHY PEOPLE WITH HYPOGONADISM GROW TITS BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE NO TEST FROM THEIR NUTSACKS THEY STILL PRODUCE ESTROGEN YOU OH SO KNOWLEDGEABLE FUCKTARDS, SO CAN WE CUT OUT THE BRO SCIENCE AND READ SOME FUCKING BOOKS PLEASE.
So youre still standing behind the idea that the above is MORE likely than the OP having dbol instead of tbol?
And DHEA aromatizes to estrone, no? Not estradiol. Estrone is less potent than estradiol.
What you are claiming to have happened here is very very rare. Dbol being swapped for tbol or another expensive oral is not rare at all.
edit. This will quickly turn into a pointless discussion. OP can solve the problem with a simple test to see whether his E2 (estradiol) level is elevated. That would pretty much rule out whether E1 (estrone) is the culprit.
Tbol is very unlikely to shut you down, it's actually a very much researched steroid, if not THE most researched steroid of all.
It's not going to shut you down in 6 weeks, studies show it reduces testosterone production by a mere 30-40%. Athletes of the former GDR have run the stuff for YEARS nonstop, and gyno is still highly unlikely to happen, according to the studies.
The chance that he has Dbol, is prone for gyno and the 60mg of Dianabol did that are much higher than to assume the Tbol has shut him down and he god gyno from that.
The potency of the estrogen is not relevant. The BALANCE between estrogenic effects and androgenic effects IS what is important. You can have a "normal" estrone or estradiol level, and without androgens end up with free implants. This is not uncommon or rare. You conveniently glossed over the fact that people who naturally have zero testosterone end up feminized.
Thats why you can have a massive amount of free estrogen by using aromatising gear with no AI, but if you throw in a hefty dose of masteron and proviron, you will likely be fine and suffer no estrogenic effects, but obviously the more logical and cost effective solution is to use an AI.
Also, relying on east german doping studies is not the most reliable thing to do. The east german dopers largely used dosages of around 10mg for males and females. Its hardly a fair or intelligent comparison when the average joe is going to be slamming 50-80mg at least.
The only way to be sure, is to submit the gear for analysis. Everything else is intellectual masturbation.