Upstream Hormones, HCG?

I feel the need to know what I am going through and I love learning. I want to be a sponge and soak up as much information as possible. Their is so much conflicting data among us that we argue frivolously even though we are all in the dark to some degree.

I’d rather be wrong and learn than to be right and lose something bigger. I’ve been wrong enough to learn my ego is dangerous and being right is not that important. I’d rather help someone else and be of use rather than harm. In turn, I always reap greater benefits anyway…so do others.

To put things in perspective: I grew up in Los Angeles and did not receive any formal education beyond the 9th grade. No one can say I’m book smart by that standard.

Most importantly, the medical field is often wrong. Most in depth medical studies on biological functions hit a brick wall concerning different aspects of a particular process. I brought up Zinc.
Zinc is well studied and established as a necessary mineral for healthy persons biological functions.
Most of humanity has known this for many ages in different parts of the world, but medical journals will openly admit that they do not know how all of Zinc’s functions work precisely in the human body. Because it can’t all be proven, much of it is guesswork. Zinc is a small example of what we don’t know about entirely, regarding biological functions.

…sorry about the diatribe.

Scrotal cream. I’ve heard the benefits of it touted by its users and believe what they are saying. As far as I know, all non oral methods of Testosterone delivery bypass the livers initial first pass metabolic function. Most oral Steroids (and many other oral chemical compounds) are destroyed, changed, and/or excreted through the liver. Almost all the blood in the human body is pushed through the liver at some point so I doubt that Scrotal creams do not ever enter the liver at all. Since transdermal applications still pass by capillaries, they enter the bloodstream to some degree regardless of where they are applied.
Transdermal Scrotal application has shown to increase Testosterone concentration levels in the blood more than other transdermal formulations used at different location sites on the body. The milligram of the dosage used in equivalency to other transdermal application methods (like gels or creams on the arms) do not raise blood Testosterone serums level concentrations to the same level as trans-scrotal creams.

In short:
5% concentration of Testosterone gel applied to the upper arms would not raise blood serum levels to the same amount as a 5% concentration of Testosterone Scrotal cream applied to the Scrotum.

So…I would guess…transdermal Scrotal cream has a chemical makeup that allows it pierce through the scrotum easier and/or the Scrotal area has a better efficacy regarding its ability to absorb Testosterone in that area.

Basically:
Effective cream + effective body site = effective absorption

It is also possible that due to the location on the body, it doesn’t get to the liver as quickly as other it does to receptors in the body (maybe receptors on the Testes specifically? I dunno). Another possibility is that it triggers a mechanism in the testicles, which in turn affects the availability and/or preservation of the Testosterone’s mechanism of action itself through a secondary behavior. It’s unlikely but I’m shooting thoughts here.

These are all guesses but the first one seems most likely.

Anyway, it raises Testosterone blood serum levels more steadily and effectively than any other method out right now.

I wonder what esters is in T Scrotal cream

try hmg

How long has it been around? What is your experience with it?

I started my trt without hcg and added it in after about 6 months. Initially it gave me a little anxiety while I got used to it but since then it has made the difference. I’ve always felt good on trt but the addisitokn of hcg pushed my libido to where I would expect it to be.
I am pretty lean and so estrogen is in check with hcg and no ai. I would think at op estrogen levels the extra estrogen would be a good thing for you.
It is very easy to alter dose to control estrogen a bit, I have run 750iu e4d but now run 125iu Ed.

I do not have labs that show preg or dhea etc but I will get them next time

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deadl1ft, thank you for your experience. I’m thinking about getting on hCG with my new prescriber offering it as part of treatment. My E2 is sitting at 16.1 pg/mL so I’m low-normal without an AI and actually trying to increase it (might help with my joint pains). I’ve heard hCG is a good way to get Estrogens up.

Would like to see your Pregnenolone and DHEA levels on you next labs. I’ll check out your TRT log and bookmark it. Thank brother.

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I have literally just been down this path of using hcg for pregnenolone stimulation and achieved nothing other than spiking my estrogen and feeling like crap.

I am supplementing with pregnenolone tablets at 30mg a day each morning on an empty stomach and have felt a massive increase in mental clarity straight away.
In fact now ive dropped the hcg all together im starting to feel better than ever before.

From my personal experience unless maintaining testicular function is of importance to someone i would just advise to supplement Pregnenolone directly. The hcg approach did nothing helpful for me

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Appreciate your take on the matter dnok. My biggest concern right now is definitely all my other hormones while taking T.
I want to make sure everything gets balanced. I’m only 2 months in on my Testosterone injections and still playing around with the dose. Just went from 100mgs Testosterone Cypionate every week to 75 mgs of Testosterone Cypionate E3.5D and want to make sure my numbers get dialed in a little before making many changes.
My nuts have shrunken from walnuts to grapes. Definitely want to preserve the production of Pregnenolone and all it’s descending hormones. I don’t think that’s likely if my if my boys aren’t active.

Do you take supplement capsules of Pregnenolone or pharmacy prescribed time release?

Unfortunately a prescription here in the uk is less likely than having a gangbang with the queen mother so my only option has been to purchase my pregnenolone through the interweb. Amazon no less lol.

I did look up many different brands and reviews firsts however. My mother in law also uses the same brand to help with menapause and we monitor her bloods (her doctor never did any bloodwork of any kind, or would, disgusting) and the pregnenolone is definitely working and helping so i dont have any concerns regarding the brand.

The difference i personally felt was drastic.

Regarding your t dosage, dont play around too much too often. You need to be on a set regime for a while for accurate testing.

Also something i spotted earlier on was the suggestion to test dhea. From my limited understanding i think dhea is an unreliable test and dhea-s is what you should be testing. Maybe something for you to consider or research. Dhea-s comes with many tests as standard or is inexpensive to add. Pregnenolone testing is expensive. Or at least it is expensive over here and where i get my bloods done.

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I meant “test” not fest.

Trt will lower your preg level

Exactly. Likewise, if intending to increase pregnenolone, take pregnenolone, not hCG.

Hcg doesn’t stimulate LH it mimics it. So it’s somewhat like injecting LH.

The going off of feel works a lot better if you have some lab numbers to work with as what you’re describing could be countless other things.

Try 50 mg pregnenalone per day and see how you feel after a couple of weeks.

I’d still suggest getting some lab work done otherwise you’re flying blind. If pregnenalone doesn’t solve the issue, you’re just back to guessing.

Low estrogen could also be the culprit. Hcg may help as well, as long as you don’t have any negative side effects from it.

Oh God, you had me and my roommate on the floor laughing our asses off with first bit about the queen. Oh shit, I’ve got to visit England one day (and pretend I’m from Canada and not the U.S).
My parents have both been there and around the UK. I guess I’ve got Irish, English and Scottish blood on my dads side.

As far as treating someone who is menopausal, I’m sorry the doctors were your at have their heads up their asses as much the doctors do where I live. Really ridiculous shit they pull sometimes.

Anyway, yes, dial my dose in and leave it there for awhile. That’s the plan. I came in to have my labs done on a peak plasma day (24-48hrs post IM Test-C) at week 6 of treatment and hit 1100ng/dL Total T and only had a Free T of 209pg/mL. So at peak levels, I had 1.8% Total Testosterone to Free Testosterone ratio. If I could float those numbers throughout the week at 100mgs a week…I’d be happy. For now I’m bumping it up to 75mgs E3.5D and hoping my SHBG drops.

I appreciate the first hand account of someone who’s taken supplemental Pregnenolone. This is what I was looking for.

Do you recall the name of the brand?

The DHEA-S test, that’s what I would get on my labs. Cost efficient is a factor. Thank you for the nod dnok.

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Heard, thank you highpull.

i tried TRT before and gave me praipism suffered alot now again i started and same having unatural erection and long one afraid i get praipism again i am stopping test which i was doing 50mg e3d along with 12.5mg aromasin and HCG 250iu eod with 5iu HMG which caused bloat and all tool aromasin for that after one week i have these erection and a panic attack so dropping T need just fertility so i read all the stikies i am now confused i need help with HCG,HMG protocol for fertility i have aromasin, nolva, hcg,hmg,proviron, fanistried these erction i am having is from high DHT along with high rbc now some one please guide me with best course protocol i am sensitive to all medicine so i start low mostly i am prone to gyno retain water quickly get fatty quickly i workout six days a week on 2000 cal diet with low carb i protien options my natural t was 3.1 e was 2.7 every other thing was all in normal i weigh 93kg i am 6.3 in hieght with normal soft muscle bit fatty style body i was thinking of starting with 250iu HCG 37.5HMg with low does of proviron and nolva and when eve needed aromasin help me please in my protocol.

labs saying bit spiked cholestrol then the test last month T is 5.8 and estro is only 5 which is taken 4 days prior to last dose but these erections are killing me pain in penis now took fanestried last night bit lesser erections still dont feel good hot face oily skin thin dry hair oily scalp bit panic feeling still there like i am on high caffeinated pre workout tingling here and there

Your correct, my mistake. I wonder if hCG really does allow the liver to produce the enzyme that cleaves the side chain of cholesterol to allow for the production Pregnenolone in the Testes then? Saw a video from the founder of excel males forum which claimed that hCG stimulated Pregnenolone through this method of action.

I have some labs, not all labs. I’ll be investing when I can. I still need DHEA-S, DHT, and a few others.

I have low E2 dunno about the other Estrogens though, dunno how important they are but I would think E1 and E3 to be significant if it’s in the body naturally.
I’ve also got high SHBG. I’m going to wait for my Testosterone levels to mellow out after my last lab 2 weeks ago and the bump in dosage.
hCG may be on the menu regardless…at least to test it out. I’ve heard a lot of people have sides but some have said they go away after 6 weeks, everyone seems different.
My memory maybe bass-ackwords from adjusting to Testosterone Cypionate or it could be a drop in Pregnenolone…I guess I’ll know if I’ve got to get it tested. I’ll try 50mgs and give it a shot.

Do you think a DHEA-S test would substitute for a Pregnenolone test if the former is cheaper? DHEA can’t be produced without Pregnenolone, correct?

My bad sir. I really thought you meant Preg fest…I probably should have known better :joy:
I feel like an ass. Please lemme know what your Pregnenolone test shows after hCG, yeah? It would be awesome to have a before and after for a Pregnenolone test in regards to hCG. I wonder if that Nigel guy from Exel Male’s theory was right about hCG preserving Pregnenolone production in the body.

I’ve not heard anyone else put this idea forth. Kind of wonder though…

I have been taking hcg for 15 years, pregnyl, novarel, compounded etc. usually 500 IU twice per week with 1 mg of anastrazole. I have never had any side effects except for elevated E on my prostate, particulary if i run out of the AI. It also helps keep the jewels shining.

what else you take some one suggest proviron amd nolva along with hmg

From my understanding thats the “ghetto” approach yes. My dhea-s was pretty low a while back and in my recent bloods my dhea-s was mid range and i had only been supplementing pregnenolone for around one week at that point so it does, in theory, seem to be an indicator.

Regarding your high shbg that “should” begin to lower with extended trt use. Ive been on a long time now and mine is on the low side and my free test is nice and high. Very high actually. When my estro is under control i feel like the hulk. My original interest in pregnenolone was triggered because although i should feel great and my numbers where all in line i still felt lethargic, brain fog, uninterested in life and it kinda came out of nowhere after years of being great. When i realized that hcg stimulated pregnenolone production and then thought back to when i used to take hcg in the pre vasectomy days i thought oh shit ive solved it! I’ll start hcg again.
Mistake. I tried the twice weekly 500iu and felt nothing. Got a bit achey balls but no size improvement. So i read about kicking them back into gear by running hcg daily for a while before dropping back to twice weekly. All i did was shoot my estro through the roof and felt even worse.

Oh there is a general theory that lowering shbg can be done by using once weekly injections rather than multiples. I will soon be able to attest to whether this theory is accurate, hopefully, as my wife is in that situation so we switched to once weekly shots instead of 2. Im due to order her bloodwork around the 6th of march.
She has decent levels of test and estro but very high shbg and as such has terribly low free androgen index.
Her liver results are fine except tibc is elevated suggesting she is deficient in iron and doing all she can to make enough so we have adjusted her mineral supplements too. Everything looks fine regarding tsh ft4 ft3 and rt3 also. With any luck the once weekly test shots will be the final piece of the puzzle and bring down the shbg

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