Upper/Lower Split Advice

What does the makeup of this split look like to you?

Upper: (Wed pm and Sun am)
Chins
Military Press
DB Bent-over row
Bench
EZ bar biceps curls
Triceps rope extensions

Lower: (Tues pm and Sat am)
Back squats
Sumo DL
Step ups OR leg press
Leg extensions
Leg curls
Calves raises

The idea would be to go ‘heavy’ for each once a week (5X5, 4x8) and lighter the other day (3x12). Goals being hypertrophy mainly.

stats would be helpful

23 years old, about 12-13% body fat, been training seriously for about 7 months.

Upper: (Wed pm and Sun am)
pull ups 3x 10-15 (warm up)
Bent-over row 5x5
Bench press 5x5
Military Press 5x5
chins 3xF
dips 3xF

Lower: (Tues pm and Sat am)
leg extensions 2x 15-20 (warm up)
Back squats 5x5
front squat 5x5
good mornings 5x5
Leg curls 3x5
Calves raises 4x10-20

try that maybe?

Like the look of that. Would it be OK to possibly sub out one of the back moves though for another shoulder one, maybe an iso? It’s just that I feel my lateral delts are already a weak point, and won’t be getting much stimulation there at all.

if u have been training 7 months i wouldnt say u need to worry much about shoulder isolation, just overhead press to build up size. ya no u can always split stuff up even more, something like this

tuesday

back squat 5x5
reverse leg curl 3xF
leg curl 2x5
seated calve raises 4x10-15

wednesday

pull ups 3xF
bent over row 5x5
bench press 5x5
military press 5x5

saturday

front squat 5x5
leg press 5x5
good mornings 5x5
standing calve raises 5x15-20

sunday

t bar row 5x5
incline db press 3x5
clean and press 5x5
dips 5xF
shrugs 4x5-10

so u have a lot more variety of excersises for body parts

Paul, I think Sid is on the right track about having two different uppers and lowers for variety. But the last program has a few flaws in my opinion but I’ll show that in next post.

By saying you’ve been training seriously for 7 months I take it your overall training age is a little longer than that yes? So if you feel that your shoulders need more work I would suggest working them first on your upper days.

Something like this would be my best choice

Upper 1

Push Press
Chins/Pullups
Inc Bench
1 arm Row

Lower 1

Back Squat
Bulgarian SS
Good mornings
Calf work

Upper 2

DB Seated Shoulder Press
Chins/Pullups opposite of what you did on upper 1
Flat Bench
BB Bent over row or Chest Supp. Row

Lower 2
Deadlift Variation whichever you’re best at
BB Lunges (long step)
Leg Press
Calf Work

Im in a bit of a rush so Ill get back to ya on the reps

Thanks, I look forward to your post when you have time! Just to feedback on the layout you have so far, only 4 exercises per workout seems a little light, I mean a couple of upper/lower templates I’ve seen had 4 compoiunds and 2 isos for an upper workout. Also, for the leg days, I have real issues doing any kind of lunging movement, it causes intense pain in my left knee. Might well be due to when I broke my leg when I was younger…

if you use enough weight then 4 excersises should be plenty for you mate

Well, I’m certainly no Ronnie Coleman! (12 reps) I only bench the 30kg dumbbells, shoulder press 22kg DBs and barely squat my bodyweight on the bar. Deadlift is a bit better though, 100kg x 12.

then pump up the weight til u can only do 4-6 reps and see how u do for growing aslong as u eat good to

I was led to believe that lower rep ranges like 4-6 were 99% for strength gains, and that to target hypertrophy you’d have to go higher, say 8-12?

Yeh sorry bout this morning, had lunch with the gf’s parents and we were runnin late.

4 exercises is plenty in a workout, especially in the Uppers if you’re doing 5x5 or 4x6 which I think are great. Thats 16-20 sets in a workout.

On the other hand you could do it like this and add in a few sets of direct iso arm work or whatever. I emphasise a FEW sets!! not like 10 lol

Push press 5x5
Chins 5x5
Inc Bench 3x10-12
1 Arm Row 3x10-12
Incline Oh Db extensions 2 or 3x10-12
Ez standing curls 2 or 3x10-12

The leg days I planned out are quad dominant on Lower 1 and hip dominant on Lower 2. So 2 of one type and only 1 of the other and some calf work. Id suggest something like this for reps.

Squat 5x5 or 4x6
Bulg. SS 3-4x8-10
Good Mornings 3x10-12
Standing Calf Raises 4x12-15

Now about the lunges if they bother you, dont do them and get that knee looked at if you can. Just use another hip dominant exercise, Id do step ups or pull throughs (one of my favourites) instead of lunges.

There’s lots of good articles on rep ranges if you want to do a search on it with the engine on the top right, but Ill give you a quick breakdown.

1-3 reps are Absolute Strength and you wouldnt need these now because your goal is hypertrophy.

3-5 reps is Relative Strength I think adding in an exercise that uses the higher end of this bracket is great for your first exercise, but the emhasis here is still mostly strength with some hypertrophy.

6-8 reps Functional Hypertrophy about even on emphasis 50/50 strength and hypertrophy

8-12 reps is the “bodybuilder zone” as alot of people have nicknamed it. It has proven effective for lots of people so its always a good rep range. Emphasis on hypertrophy.

12-20 is strength endurance and you could use this rep range for slow twitch dominant muscles like traps and calves as well as finishing or burn sets for a quick example

The above articles are always good reference to writing a program (Thanks to Coach Thib). Now you dont have to follow them to the letter but dont do deviate too much.

happy new year bams

oh yeh just another quick suggestion fill your T page up so others can see you stats and help you better. Just basics like height, weight, BF % and training age.

[quote]sid132 wrote:
if u have been training 7 months i wouldnt say u need to worry much about shoulder isolation, just overhead press to build up size. ya no u can always split stuff up even more, something like this[/quote]

sorry sid not knockin ya at all just showin the OP about program design

[quote]
tuesday

back squat 5x5
reverse leg curl 3xF
leg curl 2x5
seated calve raises 4x10-15[/quote]

not much here just the rev? leg curl to failure as the second exercise and only 2 sets for leg curl

[quote]
wednesday

pull ups 3xF
bent over row 5x5
bench press 5x5
military press 5x5[/quote]

If he wants to prioritize shoulders then it should be the first exercise and the first training day. Pullups to failure then BOR for 5x5 isnt the best choice for back development.

[quote]
saturday

front squat 5x5
leg press 5x5
good mornings 5x5
standing calve raises 5x15-20[/quote]

remember his goal is hypertrophy so 5x5 for everything doesnt always work. For the F squat i can understand but for leg press and GMs as well, probably not.

[quote]
sunday

t bar row 5x5
incline db press 3x5
clean and press 5x5
dips 5xF
shrugs 4x5-10[/quote]

5x5 Clean and Press after T bar and Inc Bench??? Since C+P requires alot of coordination and it is a fairly CNS fatiguing exercise, it (as with all other Olympic lifts) should be placed first in any program. Best case scenario pessimal performance, worst case scenario injuries. Again 5 reps doesnt cure everything.

3 exercises in a row requiring triceps to a great extent and only one with biceps, even though C+P does require a vertical pull at the start its not enough for great bicep stimulation, and it isnt a great exercise to have in between Inc Bench and Dips.

Dips to failure not bad but the exercise positioning isnt great. If i did sundays workout i dunno if id get many dips, certainly not many if i added weight

[quote]
so u have a lot more variety of excersises for body parts [/quote]

Yes he has more exercises but the exercise rep ranges are all the same. I would give the articles above a read sid paying particular attention to exercise placement

[quote]bams_101 wrote:
sid132 wrote:
if u have been training 7 months i wouldnt say u need to worry much about shoulder isolation, just overhead press to build up size. ya no u can always split stuff up even more, something like this

sorry sid not knockin ya at all just showin the OP about program design

tuesday

back squat 5x5
reverse leg curl 3xF
leg curl 2x5
seated calve raises 4x10-15

not much here just the rev? leg curl to failure as the second exercise and only 2 sets for leg curl

wednesday

pull ups 3xF
bent over row 5x5
bench press 5x5
military press 5x5

If he wants to prioritize shoulders then it should be the first exercise and the first training day. Pullups to failure then BOR for 5x5 isnt the best choice for back development.

saturday

front squat 5x5
leg press 5x5
good mornings 5x5
standing calve raises 5x15-20

remember his goal is hypertrophy so 5x5 for everything doesnt always work. For the F squat i can understand but for leg press and GMs as well, probably not.

sunday

t bar row 5x5
incline db press 3x5
clean and press 5x5
dips 5xF
shrugs 4x5-10

5x5 Clean and Press after T bar and Inc Bench??? Since C+P requires alot of coordination and it is a fairly CNS fatiguing exercise, it (as with all other Olympic lifts) should be placed first in any program. Best case scenario pessimal performance, worst case scenario injuries. Again 5 reps doesnt cure everything.

3 exercises in a row requiring triceps to a great extent and only one with biceps, even though C+P does require a vertical pull at the start its not enough for great bicep stimulation, and it isnt a great exercise to have in between Inc Bench and Dips.

Dips to failure not bad but the exercise positioning isnt great. If i did sundays workout i dunno if id get many dips, certainly not many if i added weight

so u have a lot more variety of excersises for body parts

Yes he has more exercises but the exercise rep ranges are all the same. I would give the articles above a read sid paying particular attention to exercise placement[/quote]

5 sets for hamstrings here and then 5 sets on the other leg day, ive always found 10 sets for hamstrings is plenty.

plenty people built a good base with bent over rows and pull ups , u cant expect to performe deadlifts then bent over rows your lower back will be trashed so i put pull ups in instead.

5x5 is good for size and strength if u eat well aswell, ive always followed the rule a stronger muscle is a bigger muscle but then again my goal is to be strong not just look strong gotta be better to be a power house and look like a power house then be a weakling but look the part.

put clean and press at the start of the program then it was just a rough idea i typed in.

yeh the triceps are larger then biceps so id give them more work but yeh perhaps ur right 3 for triceps and 2 for biceps would be better

ive read them articals before there saved as favorites but yeh i guess everybody differnt and everybody has differnt goals, 5x5 has worked for me but may not work for the lad in question

I liked the original split. Would have replaced the leg extensions/curls with some shoulder (p)rehab exercises like external rotations.

I would also suggest antagonistic pairing, for upper day and mixing up the exercises for lower body with (p)rehab on lower day.

Also, you can start with horizontal exercises on upper day, the next time, start with vertical exercises. The same for lower day, start with squats one day, start with deadlifts the next time.

Yeh man most of what you’ve said is true but there are a few things that couldve have been done a little different to the program that would make it alot better.

yeh I believe that 10 or so sets for hammies to be good as well but its the exercises that were chosen that were the problem and going to failure on the first ham. exercise before doing the second isnt optimal for performance. Two iso movements wont cause a significant amount of micro trauma and wont cause the muscle to adapt and grow.

Again pullups and bent over rows are great exercises and i use them in my programs but again going to failure on the first exercise isnt the best idea because performace for the rest of the workout is hampered.

5x5 is great and I bow down before it, but 5 reps for every single exercise prescibed is the best way to insure that that 5x5 wont be a great tool in your arsenal anymore because your body has adapted to it and wont elicit the same training response anymore.

I thought you may have just chucked C+P in to the second upper day but I just showed the OP where all Oly lifts have to be placed in a program for the best result.

Now Im sure you’ve heard a saying like "a shitty program performed with effort will get better results than the best program performed with no effort " or something along those lines.

If you have got results from programs with 5x5 for every exercise then good work, but think if you work as hard on a properly structured and designed program the results would be even better.

Tell u what, chuck up your current program on this thread (or a new one and PM me) and I’ll tell you where you can improve the program to get better results. If you dont like the what I say then you dont use it. But dont let your ego get in the way of results like a few other people on these forums do.

at the moment im doing

back squat 5x5
romainian deadlift 5x5
bench press 5x5
seated row 5x5
overhead press 5x5
lat pull down 3x8

front squat 5x5
reverse leg curl 5x5-10
t bar row 5x5
decline bench press 5x5
seated dumbell press 5x5
upright rows 3x8

back squat 5x5
good mornings 5x5
incline dumbell press 5x5
pull ups 5x5-10
behind the neck press 5x5
behind the back shrugs 5x10-15

OK, so how about something like this, slightly adapted to include an extra compound:

A1- Chins
A2- Military Press
B1- DB BOR
B2- DB Bench
C1- Dips
C2- DB lat. raises (or would Upright rows be a better option here- more weight as a compound, but worried that 6 compounds in 1 workout is excessive?)

All at 4x8? Is it going to be a good idea to superset in the above workout, or would I be better off going straight sets?

Back Squat (5x5 on one day, 4x8 or 3x12 another)
Sumo DLs (4x8 or 3x12 on one day, 5x5 another)
Stepups
Hamstring Curls
Leg Extension