T Nation

Upper Chest Cues

Another question. I’ve been doing slight incline presses from pins in my current routine even though I’m not doing the layering system per your advice. My upper chest still has not grown. Would you have any advice on form or cues?

Maybe try incline tilt press from the pins but this time using Layer System?

That will put growth on that chest!

[quote]Mutsanah wrote:
Maybe try incline tilt press from the pins but this time using Layer System?

That will put growth on that chest![/quote]

Hmm, I see. I cannot afford any of the recovery supplements needed. You’d think that after a couple months I could afford more stuff but nope. Prices seem to go up on certain items so the only thing I can hope for is a raise from my job.

an old article of CT’s recommended an emphasis on squeezing the bar as if you are trying to bring your hands together during the pressing motion. I tried this and not only did it put the doms in the right place, it completely eliminated my shoulder pain during incline presses. I had to drop the weight to make it work initially, but it came back up in short time.

[quote]cubuff2028 wrote:
an old article of CT’s recommended an emphasis on squeezing the bar as if you are trying to bring your hands together during the pressing motion. I tried this and not only did it put the doms in the right place, it completely eliminated my shoulder pain during incline presses. I had to drop the weight to make it work initially, but it came back up in short time. [/quote]

That’s not the only thing I do. I also do this, 11:25:

I remember posting it to Thib before and I also remember him saying to train movements, not muscles. But then that would mean I would just be pushing the weight up without a clue if I’m stimulating my chest.

[quote]bendthebar wrote:

[quote]Mutsanah wrote:
Maybe try incline tilt press from the pins but this time using Layer System?

That will put growth on that chest![/quote]

Hmm, I see. I cannot afford any of the recovery supplements needed. You’d think that after a couple months I could afford more stuff but nope. Prices seem to go up on certain items so the only thing I can hope for is a raise from my job.
[/quote]

Try a slight incline press from pins with a reverse grip

Thank you. What’s your take on allowing the muscle to be responsible for controlling the entire movement as opposed to just training the movement but with control? Some people have said that this the way every single exercise should be carried out if the goal is bodybuilding and some have said it is downright dangerous to attempt to isolate a compound movement in this manner.

i find it hard to decide whether its weight or feel i go for, what i tend to do for chest is on the first movement- compound like incline barbell i ramp up, allowing my form to get slightly lacks but still where i can feel my chest working, whereas on the next movements its all about feeling the chest contract.

thib for a bodybuilder what do you feel more important? feeling maximum contraction in the muscle or moving bigger weight still feeling it but not as well

[quote]titleist55 wrote:
i find it hard to decide whether its weight or feel i go for, what i tend to do for chest is on the first movement- compound like incline barbell i ramp up, allowing my form to get slightly lacks but still where i can feel my chest working, whereas on the next movements its all about feeling the chest contract.

thib for a bodybuilder what do you feel more important? feeling maximum contraction in the muscle or moving bigger weight still feeling it but not as well[/quote]

I personally go for weight on the main movement. When I did more accessory work I used these to focus on the quality of contraction.

Another option would be to go for weight on sets of 6 and lower and go for feeling the muscle on sets above 6 reps.

I still, personally prefer lifting heavier than focusing on the contraction, but I have good mind-muscle connection so I do get a great feeling in the muscles even when not focusing on it.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]titleist55 wrote:
i find it hard to decide whether its weight or feel i go for, what i tend to do for chest is on the first movement- compound like incline barbell i ramp up, allowing my form to get slightly lacks but still where i can feel my chest working, whereas on the next movements its all about feeling the chest contract.

thib for a bodybuilder what do you feel more important? feeling maximum contraction in the muscle or moving bigger weight still feeling it but not as well[/quote]

I personally go for weight on the main movement. When I did more accessory work I used these to focus on the quality of contraction.

Another option would be to go for weight on sets of 6 and lower and go for feeling the muscle on sets above 6 reps.

I still, personally prefer lifting heavier than focusing on the contraction, but I have good mind-muscle connection so I do get a great feeling in the muscles even when not focusing on it.[/quote]

Just got home from work, so sorry for the late reply. Thanks, Thib. I think I’ll do what you advised, somewhat focus on it while on 6 reps or lower and try to keep the chest solely responsible for the movement while on 7 reps or higher.

So I am huge fan of Kai but I find his approach here questionable. I understand his logic behind mastering the movement first but I feel like he is implying that these four sets of high reps focusing on contraction will produce the same results if not better results then if you lifted heavier. Maybe once you are seriously developed and really are looking to just keep what you have you could incorporate such an approach but someone who is still looking to add serious mass, as I believe the other individual in the video is, should be trying to constantly move heavier weight. Sometimes when I have hit a plateau I have upped the weight and forced out some disgusting reps but this resulted in progress and the following week that weight was not nearly as heavy.

I would find it hard to believe anyone could make serious progress just utilizing this method. Maybe Kai is just trying to emphasize the point and is merely doing so via hyperbole. Its funny to watch him benching 495 with ease and see him preaching light weight training in this video. Maybe he just wants to be different from all the other body builders in every other training video.

[quote]joutmez wrote:
So I am huge fan of Kai but I find his approach here questionable. I understand his logic behind mastering the movement first but I feel like he is implying that these four sets of high reps focusing on contraction will produce the same results if not better results then if you lifted heavier. Maybe once you are seriously developed and really are looking to just keep what you have you could incorporate such an approach but someone who is still looking to add serious mass, as I believe the other individual in the video is, should be trying to constantly move heavier weight. Sometimes when I have hit a plateau I have upped the weight and forced out some disgusting reps but this resulted in progress and the following week that weight was not nearly as heavy.

I would find it hard to believe anyone could make serious progress just utilizing this method. Maybe Kai is just trying to emphasize the point and is merely doing so via hyperbole. Its funny to watch him benching 495 with ease and see him preaching light weight training in this video. Maybe he just wants to be different from all the other body builders in every other training video. [/quote]

he’s using that weight as an example… you can clearly see the guy he’s training actually struggles with that weight! he’s trying to show that the weight should still be hard but that contraction of the chest must occur full way through the movement- which i agree with as its the chest you are trying to grow

[quote]titleist55 wrote:

[quote]joutmez wrote:
So I am huge fan of Kai but I find his approach here questionable. I understand his logic behind mastering the movement first but I feel like he is implying that these four sets of high reps focusing on contraction will produce the same results if not better results then if you lifted heavier. Maybe once you are seriously developed and really are looking to just keep what you have you could incorporate such an approach but someone who is still looking to add serious mass, as I believe the other individual in the video is, should be trying to constantly move heavier weight. Sometimes when I have hit a plateau I have upped the weight and forced out some disgusting reps but this resulted in progress and the following week that weight was not nearly as heavy.

I would find it hard to believe anyone could make serious progress just utilizing this method. Maybe Kai is just trying to emphasize the point and is merely doing so via hyperbole. Its funny to watch him benching 495 with ease and see him preaching light weight training in this video. Maybe he just wants to be different from all the other body builders in every other training video. [/quote]

he’s using that weight as an example… you can clearly see the guy he’s training actually struggles with that weight! he’s trying to show that the weight should still be hard but that contraction of the chest must occur full way through the movement- which i agree with as its the chest you are trying to grow[/quote]

Good point. I want to lift heavier and so does everyone else, but when Kai says you need to train this way and that guy is struggling to lift a weight most all of us lift for warm-ups, you probably should pay attention. Imagine if any one of us was in his shoes: would we be able to match his poor performance or most likely do worse than him?