T Nation

Update on the Atlanta Honor Killing

From the article:

[quote]A Muslim father accused of murdering his daughter in a so-called “honor killing” told cops God would look out for him, as he confessed to the grisly strangulation, authorities said yesterday.

“God will protect me. God is watching,” Pakistani immigrant Chaudhry Rashid allegedly confessed to cops. “I strangled my daughter.” [/quote]

Robert Spencer observes:

[quote]That’s what he said. Yet Muslim spokesmen in the mainstream media (both liberal and conservative) are routinely allowed to get away with bland denials that honor killing has anything to do with Islam.

A manual of Islamic law certified by Al-Azhar as a reliable guide to Sunni orthodoxy says that “retaliation is obligatory against anyone who kills a human being purely intentionally and without right.” However, “not subject to retaliation” is “a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring’s offspring.” ('Umdat al-Salik o1.1-2).

In other words, someone who kills his child incurs no legal penalty under Islamic law.

Why does this stipulation appear in a manual of Islamic law if this has nothing to do with Islam?

American officials and the mainstream media should be calling upon Muslims in America to institute transparent and inspectable programs that teach against the attitudes that lead to honor killing. Instead, they allow Muslim leaders to disclaim any responsibility. And that means that there will be more Chaudhry Rashids, and more Sandeela Kanwals.[/quote]

The relevant passage of the 'Umdat al-Salik, entitled “Justice”, has some other interesting things to say as well, complete with Qur’anic passages that support these doctrines:

[quote]"… and not to slay the soul that Allah has forbidden, except with right" (Koran 6:151),

and,

“O you who believe, retaliation is prescribed for you regarding the slain…” (Koran 2:178). ) [/quote]

So, under Islamic law, the someone who kills another deserves retaliation if and only if the person murdered does NOT fall into one of these categories:

[quote]The following are not subject to retaliation:

-1- a child or insane person, under any circumstances (O: whether Muslim or non-Muslim.

The ruling for a person intermitently insane is that he is considered as a sane person when in his right mind, and as if someone continously insane when in an interval of insanity. If someone against whom retaliation is obligatory subsequently becomes insane, the full penalty is nevertheless exacted. A homicide committed by someone who is drunk is (A: considered the same as that of a sane person,) like his pronouncing divorce (dis: n1.2) );

-2- a Muslim for killing a non-Muslim;

-3- a Jewish or Christian subject of the Islamic state for killing an apostate from Islam (O: because a subject of the state is under its protection, while killing an apostate from Islam is without consequences);

-4- a father or mother (or their fathers of mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring’s offspring;

-5- nor is retaliation permissible to a descendant for (A: his ancestor’s) killing someone whose death would otherwise entitle the descendant to retaliate, such as when his father kills his mother.[/quote]

So since this guy killed his daughter, he is not subject to punishment under Islamic law, just the same as if he’d killed a non-Muslim. Honor killing and the like are not just pre-Islamic tribal practices, but are sanctioned by Sunni doctrine.

Someone has helpfully posted the entire 'Umdat al-Salik (“Reliance of the Traveller”) online here:
http://www.nku.edu/~kenneyr/Islam/Reliance.html

The final relevant quote from the article is this:

[quote] Hanny Lightfoot-Klein, who has worked in the Middle East and Africa and written books on honor killings and genital mutilation in the Muslim world, had another view.

“They do not leave their customs behind when they cross borders, the customs come right with them,” she said. [/quote]

Yes. The customs come with them. Daughter murder, infidel murder, jihad, etc.

Religion = Murder.

Shut it.

Someone justifying murder with a holy book?

My mind is blown.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Someone justifying murder with a holy book?

My mind is blown.[/quote]

I’m sure it is, Abe.

Was he and his family dishonored…because his daughter worked at WAL-MART???

(…damn…I’m heard if Wally-World haters…but DAMN!!!)

Mufasa

[quote]meangenes wrote:
Religion = Murder.

Shut it.[/quote]

Atheists still win the murder pissing contest…I don’t see that record being broken anytime soon.

[quote]pat wrote:
meangenes wrote:
Religion = Murder.

Shut it.

Atheists still win the murder pissing contest…I don’t see that record being broken anytime soon.[/quote]

Even if your statement were true,all you’re intimating is that it makes religious murder acceptable…

So he admitted to it? Death.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
So he admitted to it? Death.[/quote]

Yeah, he’s proud of himself. He stood there on the driveway smoking a cigarette while the cops showed up.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
So he admitted to it? Death.[/quote]

It’s not “Death”. It’s “Death to all Muslims”.

Way to miss the point.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
So he admitted to it? Death.[/quote]

I’m with you.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Makavali wrote:
So he admitted to it? Death.

It’s not “Death”. It’s “Death to all Muslims”.

Way to miss the point.[/quote]

Fuck religion - he killed someone in cold blood.

Death.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Makavali wrote:
So he admitted to it? Death.

It’s not “Death”. It’s “Death to all Muslims”.

Way to miss the point.[/quote]

Way to miss it yourself. It’s “Deportation to all Muslims,” so they can practice this sixth century barbarism in their own country and leave the rest of us alone.

BTW, way to ignore all of the points I made about shari’ah and their Qur’anic support. Par for the course for you.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Makavali wrote:
So he admitted to it? Death.

It’s not “Death”. It’s “Death to all Muslims”.

Way to miss the point.[/quote]

I’ve gotta hand it to you, man (woman?), this statement about takes the cake. We’ve got an article here about a Muslim killing his daughter using justification from Sunni doctrines, and all you can do is whine about “persecution” of Muslims. You’re just like Mohammed. Far be it for you to demonstrate an ounce of sympathy for the dead daughter or anger at her father for what he did. Nope. Just more Islamic whining.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Way to miss it yourself. It’s “Deportation to all Muslims,” so they can practice this sixth century barbarism in their own country and leave the rest of us alone.

BTW, way to ignore all of the points I made about shari’ah and their Qur’anic support. Par for the course for you. [/quote]

Deportation to all Muslims who can’t adapt to a Western Society you mean. Let’s not generalize.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Way to miss it yourself. It’s “Deportation to all Muslims,” so they can practice this sixth century barbarism in their own country and leave the rest of us alone.

BTW, way to ignore all of the points I made about shari’ah and their Qur’anic support. Par for the course for you.

Deportation to all Muslims who can’t adapt to a Western Society you mean. Let’s not generalize.[/quote]

Again, you’re missing the point. Muslims, by definition, “can’t adapt to a Western Society”.

Pay attention!

[quote]lixy wrote:
Makavali wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Way to miss it yourself. It’s “Deportation to all Muslims,” so they can practice this sixth century barbarism in their own country and leave the rest of us alone.

BTW, way to ignore all of the points I made about shari’ah and their Qur’anic support. Par for the course for you.

Deportation to all Muslims who can’t adapt to a Western Society you mean. Let’s not generalize.

Again, you’re missing the point. Muslims, by definition, “can’t adapt to a Western Society”.

Pay attention![/quote]

Didn’t you say on another thread that Islam wasn’t merely a religion, but an all-encompassing system? Isn’t it political as well, or are you going to tell us that Mohammed wasn’t a political leader? Don’t you Muslims date your calender “al-Hijrah,” meaning “after the time Mohammed migrated to Medinah to become a political ruler?”

So if Islam has its own political system and laws (shari’ah), and those are at odds with Western democracy (and they are), what do you want us to think, especially when shari’ah includes no penalties for Muslims who kill infidels like us?

Still no sympathy for the dead or anger at the murderer? Would the passages I quoted in the 'Umdat al-Salik have anything to do with that?

[quote]lixy wrote:
Makavali wrote:
So he admitted to it? Death.

It’s not “Death”. It’s “Death to all Muslims”.

Way to miss the point.[/quote]

Lixy are you now issuing Fatwa’s?

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Makavali wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Way to miss it yourself. It’s “Deportation to all Muslims,” so they can practice this sixth century barbarism in their own country and leave the rest of us alone.

BTW, way to ignore all of the points I made about shari’ah and their Qur’anic support. Par for the course for you.

Deportation to all Muslims who can’t adapt to a Western Society you mean. Let’s not generalize.

Again, you’re missing the point. Muslims, by definition, “can’t adapt to a Western Society”.

Pay attention![/quote]

so why emigrate and expect others to adapt?
I want to move to the north pole and I demand that Texas weather be there when I get there. I have a book that says I am entitled to it.