T Nation

UPDATE...Mood Swings/Anger Come and Go


#1

I started getting TRT shots around July 1st at 200mg every 8 days. I do the shots at home and have split that into two shots (100mg every 4 days). June, July and August were great. Everything was working as advertised. Then the second week of September came, and I went into a tailspin of anger and moodiness that was overwhelming. I was in a dark place, and very angry about shit that I know I shouldn’t be very upset about.

That episode passed in about a week and things went back to normal. Then the second week of October came and I had the same experience, very bad place to be.

That too lasted about a week, and here I am in the second week of November and guess what happened? Yep, the mood swings and anger are back in a big way.

I had blood drawn during the October incident and I was told my E2 level was at the high end of normal…at 58. My testosterone level was around 850 I believe (5 days after a shot…I missed one of my normal 100mg shots by a day).

I went in again today to have it drawn but won’t know the numbers until tomorrow.

Does this pattern sound familiar to anyone? I can’t live life like this. Do I need to back off from the 200mg a week? Is this an estrogen issue that requires AI to counter?

thx


#2

Definitely does not require an AI… Lower your dose slightly.

That’s the first place to start.

Generally the starting dose is about 100mg a week. Give or take. That’s a pretty high dose, unless you have SUPER high SHBG.

Either way, slightly lower your test dose.

Don’t take an AI. you aren’t having itchy nipples or anything like that


#3

You need to post all your labs including SHBG, SHBG will dictate your TRT protocol. Usually the higher the dosage, the higher testosterone will peak, this goes for estrogen as well.

Your TRT protocol is a bit strange, usually men inject twice weekly, EOD or everyday unless SHBG is really high once weekly can work.


#4

No nipple issues at all.

Prior to starting, my first blood work showed my testosterone level at 150. The second test showed 280.

I used Clomid for a bit and Testosterone went to 580, mood improved, but libido still wasn’t there.

The shots fixed everything, but then I got into this really bad funk where every 4 weeks I get so mad I almost wreck my marriage.


#5

Losing your temper on TRT is almost always an issue of low or high e2. (unless your just an ass)

For me, low is much worse than high. High is more “bitchy”. Low is absolute raging asshole.


#6

Alpha what’s your dhea-s? I ask cause mine is low normal and is lower now a year later. wonder if this could contribute to low e2. @alphagunner


#7

It usually takes 4-5 weeks for estrogen to become elevated after starting a new protocol for myself. All of this is an indication your dosage is to high and or injection frequency isn’t ideal for you.


#8

I’ve always…ALWAYS had control of my emotions. I’ve never been a fly off the handle kind of person. Even when I do get mad about stuff I generally move on pretty quickly. But the past three months have been a drastic departure from that. I’ll go three weeks being super great to my wife, then I hit a week where my mood goes crazy and I’m an absolute asshole to her. I feel like shit about it and need to get this fixed pronto. She’s awesome, and in no way deserves that treatment. It’s certainly not fair to her.


#9

Getting labs 1 week from today. Wanted to let it normalize a little more.

Charlie, I don’t think that’s how it goes brother. E2 aromatizes directly from Test.


#10

Dhea is a precursor to estrogen. My Dr said if was concerned of high e2 I should not take it.
From my reading in woman in favors conversion to testosterone and then men favors conversion to estrogen


#11

If you look at the hormone pathway chart, it looks like DHEA is a precursor for testosterone. Then testosterone to e2

But I have heard that oral DHEA can aromatize into E2.


#12

Let me see. I just saw a study where it lowered shbg


#13

UPDATE

I just heard back on my blood test from last week.

Testosterone 991
Free testosterone 268
E2 was 5

That E2 figure was 58 in mid October. She had given me some anastrozole because I’d complained of the mood swings when my E2 was at 58.

After that mood swing in October I both cut back my Testosterone shot dose and added the Anastrozole. It looks like that combo absolutely tanked my E2. Shit.

Not really sure what to expect from this point. I had been taking 200mg every 8 days, and had planned to cut it back to 100mg because I thought my E2 was too high, not it appears it’s too low.

I’m thinking I’ll still cut back to 100mg, but stop taking the AI. This should level me out someone between 5 and 58 is my best guess.

Thoughts? Where do I go from here?


#14

Without ranges I have no idea where your Free T of 268 measures, is it high, low or mid range I don’t know. This is no standard of testing and every labs has its own ranges that aren’t compatible.

You need SHBG tested to design a proper TRT protocol, injecting smaller more frequent doses could allow you to stopping needing an AI altogether. If your SHBG is on the lower end, your TRT protocol is all wrong.

E2 is high because you are injecting large doses of testosterone infrequently, lower dosages more frequent can lower E2 while maintaining high Total T. Smaller doses minimizes the chance at converting T->E2 because injected doses are smaller, smaller T peaks, smaller E2 peaks and over time results in total levels after 6 weeks when levels are stabilized.

An example:
1st protocol 50mg 2x weekly = E2 70 pg/mL
2nd protocol 20mg EOD = E2 43 pg/mL

The difference in Total T wasn’t that big, but as you can see a bigger improvement in E2 levels.


#15

Help me figure this one out: What’s the best way to get my E2 from last weeks level of “5” back to something in the middle like 30? I had been taking AI because my previous level was at the high end of normal. I took 1mg of anastrozole just yesterday so my e2 might still not be done sinking which is a scary thought.

The last week has been absolute hell. Today I’m feeling normal, like I’m past the worst of it but it was a horrendously depressing week.

Yesterday I took a much smaller shot, just 50mg, and figured I’d run 100mg a week for a few weeks to see if I could get the mood stuff to stabilize.

Should I just ride it out at 100mg a week until my e2 comes back up? Or should I take my normal 100mg shot to get more conversion to e2 over the short term to get my level back up? I figure I could take another 50mg shot today, which added to yesterdays 50mg shot would put me at my normal 100mg dose.

I’m just learning about all of this, and if I’m thinking incorrectly or too mechanically about it just tell me, I won’t be offended.


#16

E2 on the higher end of normal, you shouldn’t have ever been given an AI. You just lower the dosage of testosterone and E2 will come down on it’s own.

If 100mg weekly gets you your current levels and you break the shots up in half, your levels will be higher than previously. Reduce dosage down 15-20%, T levels will drop slightly but E2 should come down to a more reasonable level.

If you continue injecting 100mg you will again have high E2, clearly this protocol isn’t working for you and the time for change is now.

A 100mg shot versus a 50mg shot, E2 will be lower on 50mg.


#17

I totally get the long term reduction from 100mg 2x per week (I’d been doing a total of 200mg every 8 days). My question is about whether another week of the 100mg 2x week would be a decent short term solution to get my e2 levels back up from the basement?

I wouldn’t continue as I had previously, but wondering if another week of two 100mg shots would accelerate the return of my e2 to a more normal range? At that point I could just back off to the 50mg shots 2x a week and let things settle down. The very lo E2 has me concerned just because of the symptoms I just displayed.


#18

You should recover your E2 within a week regardless of which protocol you chose, you just won’t be on the higher end of normal on the 50mg injection.


#19

Roger that. Thank you.

I wonder if my body just got used to the crash because I feel normal right now, despite the fact that I’ve taken more AI since I had the test done last week.


#20

Your not crashed so recovery should happen quicker, if it was zero then that’s another story. You will start making more estrogen within 24-48 hours after your next injection, it take longer for the body to feel those changes and possibly longer for tissue regeneration.

Stop the AI and retest in 6 weeks. Levels will fluctuate for 4-6 weeks so don’t pay much attention to how you feel until you get closer to 6 weeks.