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**UPDATE: Finishing up PCT** Vacation in Middle of PCT. Taper or SERM?


#1

Hey guys

I need some opinions.

This post will be a bit long but the here�¢??s a synopsis. A two week vacation will interrupt the Taper portion of the Stasis/Taper I plan to use. I am considering using a SERM only PCT instead. It was an 11.5 week cycle with Deca. If you can/want to help here are the details

I�¢??ve recently completed a cycle of Test E (500mg/wk �¢?? 11.5 weeks) and Nandrolone Deca (300mg/wk �¢?? 9 weeks, frontloaded). About half way in to the cycle elevated prolactin became an issue. Cabergoline tablets were acquired and dosed at 1mg/wk. I ran the caber exactly 4 weeks after my last Deca injection. I stopped the caber when I noticed that I no longer had any symptoms of high prolactin and noticed effects opposite to the ones I had with elevated prolactin (terrible stamina in the bedroom). I have been off the caber for 1 week and all problems have been resolved, things are back to normal. This leads me to believe that prolactin will not be an issue when considering recovery.

The plan for PCT was to do a standard Stasis Taper starting two weeks after my last injection of 250mg T. This plan would have taken me to around the second week in August. I was going to incorporate a SERM at the end of the taper if I felt it was necessary. Now the reason I may need to alter the plan.

Within the last few weeks I�¢??ve decided to join my girlfriend on a trip to Europe. This may be the last opportunity I will have for a long time to take a two week vacation, so I�¢??ve decided to go, since I�¢??ve never been to Europe before. I�¢??ve tried to push the trip back to August but she wants to go sooner than later so we�¢??ve compromised on mid-July (she obviously does not know about the AAS usage, we�¢??re not there yet). The trip would interrupt the middle of the taper portion of PCT. I have to decide if I want to run the stasis portion, then begin the taper, then bring some Nolvadex with me to Europe and use the SERM for a few weeks instead of the last few weeks of the taper OR if I should simply do a 4-5 week run of Nolvadex without the stasis/taper. I realize that I have been shutdown for a fair amount of time but I am only considering the idea of a SERM only PCT because elevated prolactin no longer appears to be an issue. Are there any other reasons why recovery from a cycle with Deca is more difficult?

I know a definitive answer will be hard to come by but if anyone has an educated opinion it would be appreciated. PCT (whatever form) is planned to start in three days so I have to get this figured out quickly.

Thanks
edited again


#2

Is your nolva is pill form or liquid? I think you could very safely bring the pills. Just throw them in another bottle and say its whatever vitamins, tylenol. The RC liquid stuff is a bit more risky to pack but still do-able.

Also its not the worse thing in the world to re-adjust the duration of the stasis and taper. Sure most people run 4-6 weeks of stasis and 4 weeks of taper but you could do 3 weeks of stasis and 3 weeks of taper with a SERM.
Many options out there for you really.


#3

It's a research chemical. I'm actually not that worried about bringing the bottle with me. I'd probably remove the label or just throw it in with a lot of other things. Not something I'm particularly concerned with and I'd just throw it out before I returned.

Possible ways to readjust the Stasis/Taper with the inclusion of a SERM is the type of info I'm interested in. Thank you for the input.


#4

Firstly let me say that your quiet dealing with the issue with Prolactin and the ease with which you dealt with it is indicative of your status on this board. Good stuff.

Anyway, enough arse licking - where abouts in Europe? Anywhere good?

As for the PCT - I would run a SERM only. Any and all prolactin issues will be gone with the good run with the Caber, and that is now a non-issue. It is a great drug.
The stasis has proved to be a decent protocol when run correctly, but i am afraid i am a hard and fast SERM advocate for the recovery of the HPTA at this time.

You could run the stasis then SERM PCT, but i honestly don't see the need.. why risk a longer suppression with the stasis for a 12 week cycle (i appreciate this is long to most of us these days - those who cycle at least), when i am confident that you can recover perfectly well with the SERM.

This is however just a post of personal preference, i don't have much to back it up.

There is the issue of you being with a girl that doesn't know you use AAS every night for 2 weeks.. and any dip in libido may stand out like a sore thumb.. ideally one would choose to stasis throughout the whole period... but this isnt an option.

By the timeline of your post, it seems to me that IF you choose the 'just SERM' choice, then you will have done with the PCT by the time you go to Europe?
If this is the case, i would take some Tamoxifen with me, some Proviron, Some Tadalafil and some of the Caber if you have any - it is great for sex drive regardless IME.

Tamoxifen will help you to keep an effective libido IF it has dropped off, as will proviron with minimal impact on the HPTA IF run with the Tamoxifen.
The tadafil is Cialis, and that is helpful for anyone, and as i mentioned, the Caber will help drive regardless even if prolactin is in the 'normal' range IME.

JMO :wink:


#5

Greece, Italy, and Spain. Not sure if we are going east to west or west to east yet. She's been to london already so we won't be heading to England this go around...

I have exactly 5 weeks home before I leave. I am not sure I want to mess around with structure of the stasis taper since I have no experience with it. Right now I feel great, as good as one can feel in the downtime between the cycle and PCT. The fact that I can be completely done with PCT before I leave is very appealing.

My experience with caber is a bit different than yours. While the Deca was in my system it was great. But once the Deca cleared or the levels dropped enough to not warrant caber use at 1mg/wk I didn't see benefits from it. The caber actually made me overly 'sensitive' and drastically shortened the amount of time I was able to go. That has been resolved but I wont use caber by itself. I never experienced the reduction in refractory period either. Oh well.

Thanks for the opinion on the matter. Always appreciated

I am still open to other ideas if anyone has one.


#6

That slick talkin' Brook recently talked me out of trying to do a Stasis/taper as well. Makes a ton of sense in your case to go with what he recommended.

The only other option, which may or may not be an option, would be to take a decent sized shot of test right before you left if you were really worried about libido. HRT is routinely administered in that manner with Test E. My grandfather gets 200mg every 2 weeks of Test E.

Just do the SERM PCT and assess your recovery before you leave. If I was in your situation and not feeling recovered I would take a shot of Test.

Otherwise, some cialis always did me good when I traveled around in Europe. I packed little tiny envelops of powder cialis and never had any trouble although it could look shady if found.


#7

No I won't take a larger shot of T before I leave.

That would surely be counter productive to recovery, especially if I was to do an abbreviated stasis/taper that relies on extremely stable blood levels for it to be effective.

And for the last time my dick works, lol. I'm 22 years old, I don't use cialis!!! Unless I have a few too many drinks haha...
My supply of cialis is a research chem. I dont think I'm going to take it with me.


#8

WHAT!?!? Bonez, if you want a real vacation take your Cialis and pair it with some of that caber. Now that's a vacation :slight_smile:


#9

Haha well obviously it would not be productive to recovery. Somehow I got it in my head that you were worried about you libido and a crash post cycle, my bad.

Have fun in Europe.


#10

Does anyone use low dose cialis/viagra for gym performance? The nitric oxide boost gives me great pumps the next day at the gym but I don't use it on a regular basis. I've heard most competative BBers use it for an NO boost, but at what dosage? I've also read that it becomes less effective with consistent use.

And Saps, you'd think cialis and caber would be a killer combo, and I'm sure it is for many, but I don't fair as well on both than I do on cialis alone. Maybe I just need less caber. I overrespond to adex so maybe that extends to other drugs as well...


#11

Interesting.
I cannot really tell if I get better gym pumps on Cialis. Admittedly, Im currently taking 25mg EOD of it. But my gym pumps are much more likely attributable to all the AAS Im on.


#12

Its funny you mention this - i had no idea the it was used in this way.. other than myself!

I made a post about it a few months back.. it does give me a better pump - which is nice. I use it maybe once a week to once E2W for sexula benefits. I find it an enjoyable drug - because even if i have zero issues with erection strength, one still gets a fucking boner that is twice as hard on that shit!

As for your caber - you are right, i think you may enjoy 0.25mg 2x/wk when 'normal'.

Brook


#13

Hey Bonez...Why not just extend your cycle until you have to leave?

My reasoning is that the taper seems to be getting the best results when the user takes 2 weeks off BEFORE starting the 100mg/w stasis (if injecting enth because it takes 2 weeks to drop to normal physiological levels) so why not just inject up until your vacation and then use your vacation as the clearance time then start your stasis as soon as you get home...you wouldn't need to bring anything with you to Europe (other than maybe some cialis).

Only catch would be if you don't want to run your cycle that long...I think you said you leave in about 5 weeks so that would be something like 17-18 weeks on. Personally I like longer cycles because it gives me a chance to lean out in the later weeks when the muscle gains start to slow down but everyone is different.


#14

If the time frame was different I'd consider it. But I don't have the desire or supply to stay on for that long. 4 1/2 months of suppression just isn't worth it to me. Thanks though.


#15

Well I know one other guy on this board uses it for gym performance and I've read in a few different places about a handful of Pros that do the same. I just never came across a dosage.


#16

I have used 20-40mg for a great pump in the gym - trouble is, when i have used (my prefered NO product) V12 or Cialis for this reason, i find that i 'get used to' the pumps and find them unnoticeable after time.

I stumbled across the Cialis pump after dosing it at the PM, and training the next day.


#17

UPDATE

I am in the 4th week of SERM PCT. It worked.

I will most likely run a 5th week at 10mg/d nolva just to be sure. My balls have only regained their size within the past week so I feel the 5th week of nolva will be good. I've maintained a good amount of the gains I made. Post cycle acne is still a problem, I can't seem to figure out a way to control it without resorting to a prescription med. Beach water and sunlight have helped a lot actually.

Based on the results of this cycle I am pretty sure I will never bother with the stasis taper. Taking a pill or drinking a small volume is just so much easier than doing 8-10 extra weeks of injections. I am also going to keep my cycles under 9 weeks in the future. After the second month I just seemed to get tired of being on. I felt a little run down in the gym (not overtrained at all, although gains did stall after the dbol stopped as I expected). Simply put, I got bored being on the cycle that long.

Overall a good experience with this cycle and would run it again if the stuff was free lol.


#18

Good news!

And i agree about the PCT decision WRT the taper.. redundant IME unless coming off long term use - SERM's simply work.. and while the Taper may too.. why fix something that isnt broken, and fix it with something that takes at least twice as long?

JMO


#19

Hey Bonez, glad to hear it kicked butt for you..I was curious to how you dosed your nolva during your SERM pct, if you wouldn't mind...?

I've tried difft starting doses and schemes which all worked but have been of the belief that less is better for that first week going forward for the most part. Just wondering where you stand on that issue.

Thanks dude,

ITZ


#20

I did 13 days at 40mg/d, 2 days at 30mg/d, and am currently on 20mg/d until the 5th week starts. The only reason I dropped the dose to 30mg/d is because I wanted to see if there was a difference with acne. There was no difference. It was very crude idea with no real basis for determining the amount of time at each dose.

I've only used nolvadex at 40mg/d for the first 2 weeks of PCT. Actually it was 50mg/d because the liquid is dosed at 25mg/ml but I don't actually believe I'm getting all 25mg in each ml. 40mg/d has worked well for me each time, I don't see a need to frontload it.