T Nation

Upcoming Cycle Help/Suggestions


#1

This will be my 4th cycle using AAS, I have used Tren before and I handle the sides well, this will be my first run with Dbol though. My cycle will be 12 weeks

200mg Test Prop EoD Weeks 1-12
100 mg Tren Ace EoD Weeks 1-12
50mg Dbol ED Weeks 1-7
.5mg Adex ED Weeks 1-12
500 IU HCG p/w Weeks 1-12

PCT:
HCG 500 IU ED Weeks 13-14
50mg Nolva ED Weeks 13-15
25 mg Nolva ED Weeks 16-18
100mg Clomid Weeks 13-15
50 mg Clomid weeks 16-18

Any suggestions on this cycle? any input? or am I good to go and should place the order and get ready for gains!?


#2

I definitely wouldn’t use this much Clomid + Nolvadex at the same time.

Most use one or the other; actually though there’s nothing wrong with combining and there may be advantages. Doing so is an idea of Dr Michael Scally, and in rare cases where in a consultation recovery with Clomid or Nolvadex hadn’t worked, switching to the combination did. There’s no disadvantage to combining, it’s just a matter of usually not being necessary.

If you want to do it, I would do it as 150 mg Clomid Day 1, with 50 mg taken three times, plus 60 mg Nolvadex, as 20 mg taken three times. After that, either only 25 mg Clomid plus 10 mg Nolvadex per day, or 50 mg Clomid plus 20 mg Nolvadex every other day. This is all that’s needed. More will not do better.

I would not use the HCG during the recovery weeks. Although your dosage is on the low end of the good range, it’s still in there, and testicular function should still be good as you enter recovery. Use of HCG during recovery can slow it somewhat.

I would also not change Clomid + Nolvadex dosage from week to week. Four weeks total likely will be sufficient.

I’d consider shortening the cycle, as for whatever standard of the balance of on-weeks to off-weeks you may judge right for you, shorter cycles will get you back on-cycle sooner, you’ll be doing more cycles in any given length of time, and you’ll have more results. And recovery tends to be faster from 8-10 week cycles than from 12 week cycles.


#3

You said you’ve ran tren before. Did you not feel the need for prami or caber?


#4

No. But I have only ever used genuine trenbolone, either from Finaplix-H or for many years now, from good powder.

If using pre-made injectables, they are often not 100% trenbolone and may require an anti-prolactin on account of being adulterated.

Those reporting “prolactin issues” with trenbolone ordinarily don’t have any blood test for prolactin and so aren’t really reporting a fact but rather a guess as to the cause of their problem, and often are not using genuine trenbolone.

The anti-prolactins can be prosexual even in the absence of any prolactin-increasing agent. Sometimes a cycle gives libido problems with the cause being high androgen levels, no matter the androgen, or low estradiol levels resulting from how a cycle is done. The anti-prolactins can help in these cases, simply from often being prosexual generally, rather than from there being an actual prolactin problem.

Whether a prolactin problem exists should be decided from an actual test showing elevated levels.

Btw, testosterone cycles often raise prolactin. There’s much better (totally solid) evidence for testosterone raising prolactin levels than for trenbolone doing so.

If the trenbolone is genuine, no need to reach for cabergoline or pramipexole.


#5

Very interesting thanks a lot bill. Unfortunately for most of us ugl tren is all we have access to.


#6

[quote]The Void wrote:
Very interesting thanks a lot bill. Unfortunately for most of us ugl tren is all we have access to. [/quote]

If you can find ugl you can find powder. Now quality… That will take research and trial and error.


#7

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]The Void wrote:
Very interesting thanks a lot bill. Unfortunately for most of us ugl tren is all we have access to. [/quote]

If you can find ugl you can find powder. Now quality… That will take research and trial and error.
[/quote]

Your absolutely right els don’t know why I didn’t think of that lol. I’m just not to sure I’m ready to play scientist in my kitchen but is definitely something I should research more


#8

[quote]The Void wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]The Void wrote:
Very interesting thanks a lot bill. Unfortunately for most of us ugl tren is all we have access to. [/quote]

If you can find ugl you can find powder. Now quality… That will take research and trial and error.
[/quote]

Your absolutely right els don’t know why I didn’t think of that lol. I’m just not to sure I’m ready to play scientist in my kitchen but is definitely something I should research more[/quote]
If you can bake a cake you can brew.


#9

Thank you for your Advice Bill, I just have both in good amount on hand so I thought may as well combine them if there aren’t any negative effects on combining the nolva and clomid.


#10

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I definitely wouldn’t use this much Clomid + Nolvadex at the same time.

Most use one or the other; actually though there’s nothing wrong with combining and there may be advantages. Doing so is an idea of Dr Michael Scally, and in rare cases where in a consultation recovery with Clomid or Nolvadex hadn’t worked, switching to the combination did. There’s no disadvantage to combining, it’s just a matter of usually not being necessary.

If you want to do it, I would do it as 150 mg Clomid Day 1, with 50 mg taken three times, plus 60 mg Nolvadex, as 20 mg taken three times. After that, either only 25 mg Clomid plus 10 mg Nolvadex per day, or 50 mg Clomid plus 20 mg Nolvadex every other day. This is all that’s needed. More will not do better.

I would not use the HCG during the recovery weeks. Although your dosage is on the low end of the good range, it’s still in there, and testicular function should still be good as you enter recovery. Use of HCG during recovery can slow it somewhat.

I would also not change Clomid + Nolvadex dosage from week to week. Four weeks total likely will be sufficient.

I’d consider shortening the cycle, as for whatever standard of the balance of on-weeks to off-weeks you may judge right for you, shorter cycles will get you back on-cycle sooner, you’ll be doing more cycles in any given length of time, and you’ll have more results. And recovery tends to be faster from 8-10 week cycles than from 12 week cycles.

[/quote]

Bill,

i’m curious as to why you recommend the frontload of the SERMs?