Unwanted Advice At the Gym

The old dude is probably waiting for a day that you aren’t in the gym so he can try Zercher squats and not look like a dumbass infront of you. Do what you want, try whatever exercises you want. Take what is useful from other’s advice and discard the rest. Listening to the advice of the older lifters is also your choice. Seek advice if you want, or don’t. It is your gym mebership, do with it what you will. Enjoy your workout.

[quote]TroyMcClure wrote:
Professor X wrote:
It does mean that in the “unwritten rules of the gym” your progress determines how people respond to you. Deal with it and make more progress. Everyone else had to.

That’s pretty funny. The other day I was doing some rack pulls. I had 385 on the lowest pin setting. Some huge guy comes up behind me to get a drink from the foutain right as I’m about to pull. I see him stop and get a little smirk as if he was thinking “I have to see this” I pulled the weight twice with great form.

After I finished he came up and complimented me on my lift. Maybe if the other guy paid closer attention to what I was doing while he was using the machines on the other side of the gym everyday he would see my progress. Just a thought…

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A huge guy that stops to see you lift in disbelief is because you aren’t that big to begin with. Nothing against you but that is what generally happens. Huge guy thought it was about to be comedy hour. Once you “look” like you can lift big no one will stop to look…unless you’re pushing/pulling 500+. That of course depends on the average for your gym.

You know best as to who’s advise you’ll listen. Just take a step back and notice you seem to get advice and compliments…= attention. People get attention in the gym for being huge, strong, weird (doing explosive mvmnts), or hot. I’m sure you ain’t hot. I’m sure you ain’t huge. So the remaining isn’t that bad for now.

Like I posted, nothing wrong with being polite & courteous. I’m a total a-hole and have learned the whole “polite” thing the hard way.

Take what is useful, disregard the rest.

When you get good advice, take it. When you get poor advice, discard it.

Being able to tell the difference can be the tough part.

[quote]Croooz wrote:
Whether or not I listen is based on their physique. If it’s a really old guy then the physique doesn’t come into question. The skinny 17 year old trainer can take a flying leap.

[/quote]

I definitely agree to a point. If someone with solid size and strength gives me tips I’m likely to listen to them or at least carefully consider what they’re saying. But size and strength doesn’t always translate to knowledge. There are a few guys with very good size and strength at my gym who don’t know what front squats are. They only do back squats and asked me what I was doing one day. If they had told me I was wrong, I would’ve blown it off.

On the other hand, I got some good tips on front squat form when I was first learning them. The guy had great size and strength and was helping me with the exercise I WANTED to do. So I listened to him. And glad I did.

Make sure you watch your form on your squat rack curls…oh and the smith machine is great you should do everything on it!!!

I hate people…Good luck brother

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Croooz wrote:
Whether or not I listen is based on their physique. If it’s a really old guy then the physique doesn’t come into question. The skinny 17 year old trainer can take a flying leap.

I definitely agree to a point. If someone with solid size and strength gives me tips I’m likely to listen to them or at least carefully consider what they’re saying. But size and strength doesn’t always translate to knowledge. There are a few guys with very good size and strength at my gym who don’t know what front squats are. They only do back squats and asked me what I was doing one day. If they had told me I was wrong, I would’ve blown it off.

On the other hand, I got some good tips on front squat form when I was first learning them. The guy had great size and strength and was helping me with the exercise I WANTED to do. So I listened to him. And glad I did.

[/quote]

What gets me is why the logical conclusion isn’t that obviously certain exercises are not necessary in order to reach a goal…so doing them just so you can do the “latest, newest, hardest to pronounce, or most technologically sound” exercise shouldn’t be the goal. Someone not knowing what a Zercher squat is doesn’t make them clueless. If they are huge, maybe…just maybe you consider if you even need to be doing every exercise you hear about.

Just a thought.

[quote]Croooz wrote:
A huge guy that stops to see you lift in disbelief is because you aren’t that big to begin with. Nothing against you but that is what generally happens. Huge guy thought it was about to be comedy hour. Once you “look” like you can lift big no one will stop to look…unless you’re pushing/pulling 500+. That of course depends on the average for your gym. [/quote]

Agreed. I guess it makes some feel better if they know the name of an exercise that some aren’t familiar with regardless of the extra pounds of muscle hanging off of the person they are making fun of.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

In the real world, it helps to look the part more than to actually be the part. No one is saying you are weak, however, this is the gym we are talking about…perception is everything. [/quote]

Point taken

I suggest we all listen to what others have to say but take what they do say with a grain of salt, this includes the esteemed members of this beloved website we all frequent.

This by no means is meant to bash and/or discredit the hard work writers here have put into what they… well, write (I have been visiting this website faithfully for years now!) It is only sensible that we all practice discretion and intellectual filtering when it comes to advices. Realize that even the expert writers here have gone back on their words/theories/wisdoms. While for now they may say one thing, this does not automatically make that the ultimate truth.

So take some time, think about what the old guy say, acknowledge the fact that there may be SOME truth to what he said and move on. It is up to you to weigh the pros and cons of each exercise (hell, each action in your life) to deem if it is worth it. For example, lifting PERIOD may be arguably be “hard” on your body, but the benefits to many far outweigh this slight offense. Or if you walk around withOUT a gas mask on in downtown LA, it could be detrimental to your lungs, but the compromise is the inconvenience, silly looks, etc. You get the idea.

I think I heard Louie Simmons once said that any exercise that is completely safe is completely useless

[quote]Professor X wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Croooz wrote:
Whether or not I listen is based on their physique. If it’s a really old guy then the physique doesn’t come into question. The skinny 17 year old trainer can take a flying leap.

I definitely agree to a point. If someone with solid size and strength gives me tips I’m likely to listen to them or at least carefully consider what they’re saying. But size and strength doesn’t always translate to knowledge. There are a few guys with very good size and strength at my gym who don’t know what front squats are. They only do back squats and asked me what I was doing one day. If they had told me I was wrong, I would’ve blown it off.

On the other hand, I got some good tips on front squat form when I was first learning them. The guy had great size and strength and was helping me with the exercise I WANTED to do. So I listened to him. And glad I did.

What gets me is why the logical conclusion isn’t that obviously certain exercises are not necessary in order to reach a goal…so doing them just so you can do the “latest, newest, hardest to pronounce, or most technologically sound” exercise shouldn’t be the goal. Someone not knowing what a Zercher squat is doesn’t make them clueless. If they are huge, maybe…just maybe you consider if you even need to be doing every exercise you hear about.

Just a thought.[/quote]

The merits of the Zercher squat the orignal poster was discussing are debatable. In my case, I was talking about standard FRONT squats. Just because a few big guys at the gym weren’t familiar with them doesn’t mean they’re not a good exercise and worth me doing. I think they are. You don’t think front squats are a good exercise?

Good thread guys. Some things to throw in …

just because a guy “looks” big and strong doesn’t translate 100% into anything. some guys have genetic or pharmacological advantages and “look” big and strong despite their knowledge and what they do in the gym. on the flip side, other guys don’t look like monsters but are very strong and really know their shit. these two groups represent the .1% on both ends of the spectrum, and most of us lie somewhere in between.

in general, i will listen to what anyone has to say, think about it, and then determine its value.

two example come to mind.
(1) a big older guy was giving me pointers on deadlifting. some was good, some was bad, but i listened. they guy is plain big. big frame, big structure. he’s been deadlifting for a lot of years, and he’s still healthy and deadlifting, so that means something. but that does not mean that everything he says is spot on.

(2) a regular looking guy, more muscular than the average joe, but not hugenormous, came up to me just yesterday and gave me snatching advice. looking at him, you wouldn’t think that he knew what a snatch was, but everything he said made sense. with his help, and i actually went and grabbed him a second time to get further help on my form, i hit a new snatch PR for 5 singles and probably had another 20-30 #s in the hole!

as an aside, this whole thread only touches on a big problem in commercial gyms today. guys that “look” big and strong may spend all day doing curls, cable lateral raises, and leg extensions. kids see this. kids copy this. kids don’t get anywhere, so they turn to AAS. after 5 years of this, they “look” big and strong doing curls and lateral raises and leg extensions. kids see this …

Analagous to this whole thing is my take on Prof X’s posts. Sometimes I agree. Sometimes I don’t. Simply because he is bigger and stronger and more experienced does not mean that everything he says translates to me … or any of you for that matter. And I’m quite sure he’ll agree with that.

Finally, regarding the zercher squats and this guys situation. Don’t NOT do them for fear of offending someone else. If you really want to prove yourself, PRINT the articles and bring them to the gym. Give them to the guy and ask him what he thinks. Be respectful. Also, similar to what others said, if you have only been lifting for a short while, the basics should be more than adequate - squat, deadlift, bench, push stoff overhead, pull stuff down, pull stuff to. DON"T OVERCOMPLICATE STUFF.

How come when I started this post I wasn’t capitalizing stuff, and now I am?

Bastard!

[quote]jsbrook wrote:

The merits of the Zercher squat the orignal poster was discussing are debatable. In my case, I was talking about standard FRONT squats. Just because a few big guys at the gym weren’t familiar with them doesn’t mean they’re not a good exercise and worth me doing. I think they are. You don’t think front squats are a good exercise?
[/quote]

I originally said I was doing them to hit my core and spinal erectors. I was kind of vague in this statement. I normally do various other exercises for this purpose but yesterday was a little different. I missed a couple lift days and couldn’t make them up. I decided to do a total body day and figured Zercher’s would help kill a few birds with one stone.

[quote]TroyMcClure wrote:
jsbrook wrote:

The merits of the Zercher squat the orignal poster was discussing are debatable. In my case, I was talking about standard FRONT squats. Just because a few big guys at the gym weren’t familiar with them doesn’t mean they’re not a good exercise and worth me doing. I think they are. You don’t think front squats are a good exercise?

I originally said I was doing them to hit my core and spinal erectors. I was kind of vague in this statement. I normally do various other exercises for this purpose but yesterday was a little different. I missed a couple lift days and couldn’t make them up. I decided to do a total body day and figured Zercher’s would help kill a few birds with one stone.
[/quote]

Yeah. I wasn’t trying to say that you should never do Zercher squats. Just that back squats, front squats, and deadlifts should be the cornerstones of your leg workout.

Good post BFG

There’s nothing worse than the “you’ll hurt your back doing that” satements and looks from the weekend warriors and trainers-of-middle-aged-women. Those get strait tuned out. I have on the other hand recieved great tips at random times from people who actually knew what they were talking about. I think the most important thing is to just listen to the advice and the reasoning behind it.

If the person isn’t even familier with the exercise you are doing and is criticising based on generalizations, they probably won’t contribute much. If on the other hand you have someone who has “been there, done that” giving you pointers or observing flaws that have crept into your form, it can be quite helpful. I always look at the sources of such advice as well and consider what they are doing in their workouts and how their form and functional strength appears-- not size though. It isn’t to hard to pick out the weekend warriors, machine jockeys and wannabe body builders in any crowd.

It always stands out to me when I see people training who obviously know what they are doing and why they are doing it. More often than not in my experience, the people who know the most aren’t the biggest guys in the gym, but you can definitely see from looking at them that they are strong. The performance oriented athletes just carry themselves differently in the gym and also tend to be much more selective in the offering of advice. I think the attitude is much more one of “just because I haven’t seen/done it doesn’t mean it doesn’t serve a purpose for whatever that person is doing.”

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
The merits of the Zercher squat the orignal poster was discussing are debatable. In my case, I was talking about standard FRONT squats. Just because a few big guys at the gym weren’t familiar with them doesn’t mean they’re not a good exercise and worth me doing. I think they are. You don’t think front squats are a good exercise?
[/quote]

I didn’t say that. I also question just how “big” these guys were if they didn’t even know what a front squat was. They aren’t necessary if that is what you wanted to know, but that doesn’t mean you can’t make them a very effective part of your training along with other more significant movements for legs. One current IFBB pro who used to go to a gym I attended swore by sissy squats while holding a 45lbs plate. His legs are ridiculous. However, he also based his routine around a shitload of heavy leg presses (bilateral and unilateral) and hack-squats.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
The merits of the Zercher squat the orignal poster was discussing are debatable. In my case, I was talking about standard FRONT squats. Just because a few big guys at the gym weren’t familiar with them doesn’t mean they’re not a good exercise and worth me doing. I think they are. You don’t think front squats are a good exercise?

I didn’t say that. I also question just how “big” these guys were if they didn’t even know what a front squat was. They aren’t necessary if that is what you wanted to know, but that doesn’t mean you can’t make them a very effective part of your training along with other more significant movements for legs. One current IFBB pro who used to go to a gym I attended swore by sissy squats while holding a 45lbs plate. His legs are ridiculous. However, he also based his routine around a shitload of heavy leg presses (bilateral and unilateral) and hack-squats.[/quote]

Exactly! They weren’t huge, but they had good size. Bigger than many on this site. (though that’s not necessarily saying that much in some cases). They were dammned well big enought that I was pretty surprised they didn’t know what a front squat was. In terms of front squats, I agree that they aren’t ‘necessary’. I also agree that they can be a very effective part of training. I use them. I also do back squats, heavy leg presses, and deadlifts.

The guys didn’t tell me I was wrong. They just wanted to know what I was doing. If they had said I was wrong, I would’ve justifiably called bullshit. My point is that, although size affords a fair degree of credibility, you shouldn’t automatically take someone’s advice simply because they’re big. I’ve put on a fair amount of size since my avatar. And I will continue to grow. Obviously there are people at my gym that are bigger than me. If they offer some advice, I will consider it carefully. But I know enough about training to evaluate it critically and not just accept blanket advice as dogma.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
One thing I can guarantee, however, is had you appeared to actually know what you are doing, there is much less of a chance that anyone will try to correct you on it.

That doesn’t mean you tell him to “fuck off” just because of this. It does mean that in the “unwritten rules of the gym” your progress determines how people respond to you. Deal with it and make more progress. Everyone else had to.

[/quote]

I have to agree with Prof X on this one. There are two kinds of people who get free advice in the gym where I work out, the ones who are doing something that’s wrong or unsafe and the ones that are doing things a bit differently than folks are used to seeing. If it’s different and they are really big, they don’t get advice, they get watched. When possible and polite, they get questioned. They don’t get interrupted or bothered in the midst of their workout.

But “I learned about this from a website” is not a reassuring phrase for an old lifter to hear. They know that most bodybuilding articles in print and on the web are trash. Most don’t know about T-Nation. They probably ignored the advice of older lifters back when they were younger, too. Don’t sweat it.

I guess since I mentioned the size thing I need to clarify. In order to get a thought across completely it would require a book.

That being “said”. When you’ve been lifting 20 years, have size and say that you only listen to people with size…I think people with size understand. How many big guys actually go around giving advice? The most serious guys at the gym are hardly ever heard speaking. They come, work out and out the door they go. I’m not saying that sheer size equals knowing their stuff.

Take note of what people are doing or not doing in the gym. If you lift at a regular time then chances are there is a regular crowd. You can get a sense of what they do and don’t do. There are but 3 guys at my gym I would listen to at the times I work out. There are a few old heads during the off peak hours, who just flat out know their stuff. They don’t squat, deadlift, or bench press. Years of abuse to joints have cost them and they are those big guys on the machines you usually see. These guys have the trophies, scars, and residual physiques from decades of lifting.

Everyone has a story. If someone offers you advice then that should be a wakeup call that perhaps YOU are doing something off. If perhaps it’s just because this is the first time they’ve seen a good morning squat…then listen and see what’s said. Trust me that prevention is sooooo much better than trying something because it was promoted even here.

BTW, I hurt my back with a zercher good morning. Yet feel fine with safety bar good mornings. Everything is not for everyone.