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Unresponsive Shoulders...

I have heard of the push press. I do it every Workout #2. It is a power movement. It is like the barbell press, but instead of staying strick you use more weight then you could normally lift over your head and push it up with your legs. Then slowly lower it on the negative portion. I personally love this exercise. It is refered to as the push press by Arnold and Milos Sarcev.

[quote]DanErickson wrote:
I have heard of the push press. I do it every Workout #2. It is a power movement. It is like the barbell press, but instead of staying strick you use more weight then you could normally lift over your head and push it up with your legs. Then slowly lower it on the negative portion. I personally love this exercise. It is refered to as the push press by Arnold and Milos Sarcev.[/quote]

I just looked this up, and THIS is a “push press”
http://www.myfit.ca/exercisedatabase/viewanexercise.asp?table=exercises&ID=75

Not the exercise previously shown in this thread. Picking it off of the ground means you are “cleaning” the weight. That is why it is called a “clean and press”. The “push press” looks like controlled cheating to get more weight over your head.

Like already said, I wouldn’t use this as a main exercise for shoulder growth although I could see it having a purpose to some people.

Look at hss-100 for shoulders. CT has a ‘push press’ as a primary heavy movement, because you can control more on the eccentric, and cheat the concentric, to get more weight up. BUT after that, there’s a load of other lateral raises, isometrics etc

Check out CT’s Blood on the Barbell “shoulder program” for some inspiration.

K, tell you what, you guys keep doing your push presses for your massive shoulders, X and I will stick to working on delts the way we have been. When you are ready to compare let us know.

A

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I just looked this up, and THIS is a “push press”
http://www.myfit.ca/exercisedatabase/viewanexercise.asp?table=exercises&ID=75

Not the exercise previously shown in this thread. Picking it off of the ground means you are “cleaning” the weight. That is why it is called a “clean and press”. The “push press” looks like controlled cheating to get more weight over your head.

Like already said, I wouldn’t use this as a main exercise for shoulder growth although I could see it having a purpose to some people.[/quote]

Right; I indicated in my post that the push-press was usually taken from the rack rather than power cleaned from the floor.

Actually, I don’t do push-presses for “massive shoulders.” I do them for more leg drive and shoulder strength in the split jerk. I was just curious about whether this movement was used at all for bodybuilding purposes. We can compare rack jerk numbers, if you’d like. :slight_smile:

I guess this post was directed too me as well?

From your previous post “Just curious–what shoulder and triceps mass I have, I acquired mostly from training my push-press.”

Must not have a lot to show for then.

For some reason, I am not too worried about you outlifting or outperforming me on any kind of excercise you can come up with.

I guess I need to be reminded from time to time why I refrain from giving people advice.

[quote]Ross Hunt wrote:
Professor X wrote:

I just looked this up, and THIS is a “push press”
http://www.myfit.ca/exercisedatabase/viewanexercise.asp?table=exercises&ID=75

Not the exercise previously shown in this thread. Picking it off of the ground means you are “cleaning” the weight. That is why it is called a “clean and press”. The “push press” looks like controlled cheating to get more weight over your head.

Like already said, I wouldn’t use this as a main exercise for shoulder growth although I could see it having a purpose to some people.

Right; I indicated in my post that the push-press was usually taken from the rack rather than power cleaned from the floor.

Actually, I don’t do push-presses for “massive shoulders.” I do them for more leg drive and shoulder strength in the split jerk. I was just curious about whether this movement was used at all for bodybuilding purposes. We can compare rack jerk numbers, if you’d like. :-)[/quote]

[quote]Amsterdam Animal wrote:
I guess this post was directed too me as well?

From your previous post “Just curious–what shoulder and triceps mass I have, I acquired mostly from training my push-press.”

Must not have a lot to show for then.

For some reason, I am not too worried about you outlifting or outperforming me on any kind of excercise you can come up with.

I guess I need to be reminded from time to time why I refrain from giving people advice.

Actually, I don’t do push-presses for “massive shoulders.” I do them for more leg drive and shoulder strength in the split jerk. I was just curious about whether this movement was used at all for bodybuilding purposes. We can compare rack jerk numbers, if you’d like. :slight_smile:

[/quote]

What exactly would you like to have heard? I appreciate your answering questions, certainly; I don’t appreciate backhanded insults.

In the first place, I asked a simple question about an exercise; I was not telling you how should train, I was asking you. I did not imply that you should be doing things in other way. I asked you how much you rack jerk because that question has about as much to do with this discussion as your ‘how big are your shoulders, then?’

Testosterone and courtesy need not be mutually exclusive. But what the hell, it’s just the Internet.

I must be in the wrong thread then. The OP asked about unresponsive shoulders and how to make them grow. You asked about push presses for size. I told you what I do for size on my delts. You jerk more weight than I do according to you and my shoulders are bigger. So I am still confused, what are we talking about again?

[quote]Ross Hunt wrote:
Amsterdam Animal wrote:
I guess this post was directed too me as well?

From your previous post “Just curious–what shoulder and triceps mass I have, I acquired mostly from training my push-press.”

Must not have a lot to show for then.

For some reason, I am not too worried about you outlifting or outperforming me on any kind of excercise you can come up with.

I guess I need to be reminded from time to time why I refrain from giving people advice.

Actually, I don’t do push-presses for “massive shoulders.” I do them for more leg drive and shoulder strength in the split jerk. I was just curious about whether this movement was used at all for bodybuilding purposes. We can compare rack jerk numbers, if you’d like. :slight_smile:

What exactly would you like to have heard? I appreciate your answering questions, certainly; I don’t appreciate backhanded insults.

In the first place, I asked a simple question about an exercise; I was not telling you how should train, I was asking you. I did not imply that you should be doing things in other way. I asked you how much you rack jerk because that question has about as much to do with this discussion as your ‘how big are your shoulders, then?’

Testosterone and courtesy need not be mutually exclusive. But what the hell, it’s just the Internet.[/quote]

I was just responding to this–

[quote]Amsterdam Animal wrote:
K, tell you what, you guys keep doing your push presses for your massive shoulders, X and I will stick to working on delts the way we have been. When you are ready to compare let us know.

A [/quote]

–and pointing out that since I wasn’t trying to tell you how to train, there’s no need to make a ‘Post pics if you’re going to tell me how to train’ post. Hence the rack jerk joke. I guess it might have been better not to go into all this in the first place.

Good luck with your training.

I see your point. Where is the OP anyway?

Good luck with your rack jerks :slight_smile:

[quote]Ross Hunt wrote:
I was just responding to this–

Amsterdam Animal wrote:
K, tell you what, you guys keep doing your push presses for your massive shoulders, X and I will stick to working on delts the way we have been. When you are ready to compare let us know.

A

–and pointing out that since I wasn’t trying to tell you how to train, there’s no need to make a ‘Post pics if you’re going to tell me how to train’ post. Hence the rack jerk joke. I guess it might have been better not to go into all this in the first place.

Good luck with your training.[/quote]

Hi guys, nice to see a thread of mine has taken off. Personaly I dont do push presses, but Bill Starr refers to them as a ‘fine substitute’ for military press on his 5x5 page. Personaly i like to keep the delts working overtime with little help from anywhere else. The delts (for me) can be very hard to stimulate. So today along with my deads and squats and military I did 5X5 arnold press (ramping to top weight) and 3X8 lateral raises. I intend to do raises on days one, two and three. For those of you familiar with the madcow 5x5 program it doesnt mention that and although the programs bulking me up nicely i feel my delts need a little bit ‘extra’.

Cheers again guys and dont get fightin over the push press now…

I’m having visions of guys with front delts that are way out of proportion with the other two heads if “push presses” done the way the guy in the youtube clip was doing them is their main shoulder building exercise. Especially since bench movements are sure to contribute as well.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I’m having visions of guys with front delts that are way out of proportion with the other two heads if “push presses” done the way the guy in the youtube clip was doing them is their main shoulder building exercise. Especially since bench movements are sure to contribute as well.[/quote]

We’ve been saying that. It’s a fad now to avoid training all sides of that muscle group completely. I think it’s pretty clear that none of these guys will be getting on any bodybuilding stages by approaching their training this way. I also doubt too many people will be running up to them in the gym to ask for advice on how to look like they do. I don’t think the exercise is useless, but I sure as hell don’t think it is necessary or even near the top three exercises responsible for the most growth and strength development.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I just looked this up, and THIS is a “push press”
http://www.myfit.ca/exercisedatabase/viewanexercise.asp?table=exercises&ID=75

Not the exercise previously shown in this thread. Picking it off of the ground means you are “cleaning” the weight. That is why it is called a “clean and press”. The “push press” looks like controlled cheating to get more weight over your head.

Like already said, I wouldn’t use this as a main exercise for shoulder growth although I could see it having a purpose to some people.[/quote]

I don’t know if I would use it for a main shoulder exercise either. If there is such a thing as a main exercise.
When doing shoulders and arms my routine looks like this.
Clean and press
Dumbbell later raises
Then for power trainning I do
Heavy upright rows
Push Press

[quote]DanErickson wrote:
Professor X wrote:

I just looked this up, and THIS is a “push press”
http://www.myfit.ca/exercisedatabase/viewanexercise.asp?table=exercises&ID=75

Not the exercise previously shown in this thread. Picking it off of the ground means you are “cleaning” the weight. That is why it is called a “clean and press”. The “push press” looks like controlled cheating to get more weight over your head.

Like already said, I wouldn’t use this as a main exercise for shoulder growth although I could see it having a purpose to some people.

I don’t know if I would use it for a main shoulder exercise either. If there is such a thing as a main exercise.
When doing shoulders and arms my routine looks like this.
Clean and press
Dumbbell later raises
Then for power trainning I do
Heavy upright rows
Push Press

[/quote]

When did overhead presses, possibly the most effective exercise for growth and development, get thrown out of the window?

Heavy upright rows? Say, “goodbye” to your shoulders and, “hello” to life over 30 with joint pain or injury. I truly believe this to be the case for most people if they keep that up for several years. Nothing beats heavy shrugs for trap development.

Why do heavy upright rows hurt the shoulders?