T Nation

Unlimited No-Suppression Cycle with Clomid?

Hi all,

I remember reading Prisoner22’s famous Test Taper thread where it was discussed that using a low dose SERM such as 25 mg Clomid actually completely prevented HPTA suppression (Measured by LH and FSH) when using a dose of 100 mg Testosterone Cypionate.

This really intrigued me. Let’s say an average man 25 years old has testosterone levels around 600 ng/dl. Now if we extrapolate the increase in testosterone that Clomid causes in and of itself, those levels can be raised to about 1000 ng/dl (1). Now, if you throw in the 100 mg T. Cyp, we can extrapolate that that dose would boost T levels about 500 ng/dl (2), which I draw from all the TRT studies I have seen at that dose.

So now you sit at 1,500-1,600 ng/dl with zero suppression. Now, 300 mg of T. Cyp/wk has been shown to bring T levels up to about 1,345 ng/dl (2). So in fact, you are pretty much running 350-400 mg T. Cyp/wk with ZERO suppression.

Has anyone ever thought of doing this? It seems extremely promising to me in theory, being able to run a pretty good dose for as long as you wanted with no suppression. Now I know that a theory is usually great on paper but not so great in practice (SERM side effects, etc.).

Any thoughts? Opinions? Tips?

CITATIONS:

  1. Clomiphene citrate effects on testosterone/estrogen ratio in male hypogonadism
  2. http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172.full.pdf

Low dose AI and SERM use alone can increase T and Free T to above top of range.

There are alot of studies indicating ‘0 suppression’ of FSH and LH with various compounds, yet anecdotally they never work and result in E2 sides or shutdown.

Look into the ‘non-suppressive’ use of HCG, Turinabol and Anavar (amongst others) then go to any given steroid forum and read some of the 'OMG HELP GYNO!?!??111" or “WTF SHUTDOWN??” threads in this regard.

There are no free rides in regards to HPTA function and AAS use.

Cheers,
-PTD

Thanks for the input - once again, I am sure my “rock hard theory” will have problems in practice.

I am mostly worried about E2 sides from SERM use - however, it is a pretty low dosage. I haven’t really heard of anyone experiencing sides at that low of a dose.

25mg Clomid wont cause much. Probably the always-present-yet-unquantifiable "bitchyness’ everyone gets on Clomid, combined with some skin oil accumulation.

If your goal is a mild increase in progress, without HPTA suppression, I think your money would be better spent a peri-workout supplments and peptides. GHRPs are continually gaining popularity as the go-to for body comp improvement without AAS usage and the suppression that goes along with it.

Cheers,
-PTD

Thanks Pain, I might try this cycle for a few weeks and just get BW done ever 2 weeks or so to see if there is any suppression.

If this could work out, I feel this could be an incredible cycle for young users who don’t want to risk shutdown.