T Nation

Universal Question of Faith


#1

To Clarify, I am not bashing, just looking to get a better understanding of how our nation identifies with faith.

I've had this question on my mind for a good while. It concerns how our country deals with God's possible prophets and those who feel they are warriors of God.

example

a man,sees the sky opening and hears God's voice tell him to destroy another person for blasphemy or something. The man carries out the order and then is imprisoned. Why is this? We all know its God's thing to only show himself to one person at a time and make them do something out of the ordinary. It is also common knowledge that he uses extreme ways to communicate (burning bush etc). So in a country that is 83 percent Christian according to ABCNews, shouldnt there be a different view on those that are ordered by God?

second example

Homeless guys who say they are Jesus

How do we know they arent? Has anyone seen Jesus? Wasnt Jesus a bum, by standards? Again, 83 percent of the country says Christianity is their faith, yet they see their possible king and tell him to gget a job.

Why do we look down on,medicate, or imprison those who might actually be God's servants? Yet, on Sunday drive to a church where a preacher, who is supposed to live a modest and faithful life has a Hummer and a mistress in the congregation?


#2

I’m curious to see what sort of responses you get to this. While I’m not really sure what I think, I will say that I have thought about similar things before. More often though my thoughts focus on specific old testament stories.

I just think to myself, “wow, if someone today left their wife and married a working prostitute, even if they claimed God told them to do it, any church would condemn it”. Of course, you can repeat that and insert your favorite Bible story in there.


#3

Hey Look!!! Another “anti-religion/bash-Christians” thread.

How novel.

There’s NEVER been any of those.


#4

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Hey Look!!! Another “anti-religion/bash-Christians” thread.

How novel.

There’s NEVER been any of those.[/quote]

I’m not bashing, I am a Christian. I’m just curious about how our culture identifies itself. I’m not going against, just trying to understand.


#5

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Hey Look!!! Another “anti-religion/bash-Christians” thread.

How novel.

There’s NEVER been any of those.[/quote]

Whatever the OP’s intent, isn’t this actually an interesting topic? I think so anyway.


#6

[quote]stokedporcupine8 wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
Hey Look!!! Another “anti-religion/bash-Christians” thread.

How novel.

There’s NEVER been any of those.

Whatever the OP’s intent, isn’t this actually an interesting topic? I think so anyway.[/quote]

I’m guessing this will be the type of response I get. People can’t ask questions without being labeled a basher.


#7

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
stokedporcupine8 wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
Hey Look!!! Another “anti-religion/bash-Christians” thread.

How novel.

There’s NEVER been any of those.

Whatever the OP’s intent, isn’t this actually an interesting topic? I think so anyway.

I’m guessing this will be the type of response I get. People can’t ask questions without being labeled a basher.

[/quote]

It’s absurd because your initial post has the topic set up with a straw man:

[quote]Homeless guys who say they are Jesus

How do we know they arent? Has anyone seen Jesus? Wasnt Jesus a bum, by standards? Again, 83 percent of the country says Christianity is their faith, yet they see their possible king and tell him to gget a job.
[/quote]

According to the writings in the Bible, it became apparent (to those who witnessed Him) that He was who He claimed to be through his teachings and His deeds. If one of those bums is Jesus, then in time it should become apparent. No?

[quote]
Yet, on Sunday drive to a church where a preacher, who is supposed to live a modest and faithful life has a Hummer and a mistress in the congregation?[/quote]

Again, this is absurd. You take the case of the extreme, if it exists at all, and apply it as if it were the rule. There are child molesting priests, there are child molesting public school teachers, there are murderous police officers, etc. ad nauseum. You can find hypocrites and unscrupulous examples anywhere in any profession, but to apply them as the norm or the rule is folly.


#8

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
To Clarify, I am not bashing, just looking to get a better understanding of how our nation identifies with faith.

I’ve had this question on my mind for a good while. It concerns how our country deals with God’s possible prophets and those who feel they are warriors of God.

example

a man,sees the sky opening and hears God’s voice tell him to destroy another person for blasphemy or something. The man carries out the order and then is imprisoned. Why is this? We all know its God’s thing to only show himself to one person at a time and make them do something out of the ordinary. It is also common knowledge that he uses extreme ways to communicate (burning bush etc). So in a country that is 83 percent Christian according to ABCNews, shouldnt there be a different view on those that are ordered by God?[/quote]

Prophets are to be thoroughly tested before belief in their prophetic word to be true. After Jesus died and rose again from the Tomb on the third day, kind of unnecessary for that stuff, but I can not judge if it is actually true.

[quote]second example

Homeless guys who say they are Jesus

How do we know they arent? Has anyone seen Jesus? Wasnt Jesus a bum, by standards? Again, 83 percent of the country says Christianity is their faith, yet they see their possible king and tell him to gget a job.[/quote]

Read revelations and you will understand. Unless you consider a Rabbi a bum, I doubt Jesus would look like a bum. And you do not see many homeless people with a horse, eyes of fire, and legions of angels.

[quote]
Why do we look down on, medicate, or imprison those who might actually be God’s servants? Yet, on Sunday drive to a church where a preacher, who is supposed to live a modest and faithful life has a Hummer and a mistress in the congregation?[/quote]

No one said a preacher is supposed to be modest, it’s a suggestion so they will not fall in to a trap of sinful ways. A mistress is not necessarily bad unless it is breaking vows and is deceitful in nature. The reason, because society has moved away from the truth. If they are really God’s servants, then it is sad they are in that position, but for some reason they are.


#9

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Ct. Rockula wrote:
stokedporcupine8 wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
Hey Look!!! Another “anti-religion/bash-Christians” thread.

How novel.

There’s NEVER been any of those.

Whatever the OP’s intent, isn’t this actually an interesting topic? I think so anyway.

I’m guessing this will be the type of response I get. People can’t ask questions without being labeled a basher.

It’s absurd because your initial post has the topic set up with a straw man:

Homeless guys who say they are Jesus

How do we know they arent? Has anyone seen Jesus? Wasnt Jesus a bum, by standards? Again, 83 percent of the country says Christianity is their faith, yet they see their possible king and tell him to gget a job.

According to the writings in the Bible, it became apparent (to those who witnessed Him) that He was who He claimed to be through his teachings and His deeds. If one of those bums is Jesus, then in time it should become apparent. No?

Yet, on Sunday drive to a church where a preacher, who is supposed to live a modest and faithful life has a Hummer and a mistress in the congregation?

Again, this is absurd. You take the case of the extreme, if it exists at all, and apply it as if it were the rule. There are child molesting priests, there are child molesting public school teachers, there are murderous police officers, etc. ad nauseum. You can find hypocrites and unscrupulous examples anywhere in any profession, but to apply them as the norm or the rule is folly.
[/quote]

not applying them as norm Steey, but you have to admit it is common, while it is extreme.

as for acknowledging Jesus, do you really think the general public would take the time out to actually listen to a bum? Especially if said bum was claiming divinity? I agree, with time teachings and deeds could prove his identity, but how many people would really pay attention to the crazy guy shouting “turn the other cheek”? Do you deny a disconnect between today’s society and religion?

I’d appreciate it if you’d not call my question absurd. I’m just posing thoughts here. Argument is not really my goal, although it seems to run wild on this forum.


#10

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Ct. Rockula wrote:
To Clarify, I am not bashing, just looking to get a better understanding of how our nation identifies with faith.

I’ve had this question on my mind for a good while. It concerns how our country deals with God’s possible prophets and those who feel they are warriors of God.

example

a man,sees the sky opening and hears God’s voice tell him to destroy another person for blasphemy or something. The man carries out the order and then is imprisoned. Why is this? We all know its God’s thing to only show himself to one person at a time and make them do something out of the ordinary. It is also common knowledge that he uses extreme ways to communicate (burning bush etc). So in a country that is 83 percent Christian according to ABCNews, shouldnt there be a different view on those that are ordered by God?

Prophets are to be thoroughly tested before belief in their prophetic word to be true. After Jesus died and rose again from the Tomb on the third day, kind of unnecessary for that stuff, but I can not judge if it is actually true.

second example

Homeless guys who say they are Jesus

How do we know they arent? Has anyone seen Jesus? Wasnt Jesus a bum, by standards? Again, 83 percent of the country says Christianity is their faith, yet they see their possible king and tell him to gget a job.

Read revelations and you will understand. Unless you consider a Rabbi a bum, I doubt Jesus would look like a bum. And you do not see many homeless people with a horse, eyes of fire, and legions of angels.

Why do we look down on, medicate, or imprison those who might actually be God’s servants? Yet, on Sunday drive to a church where a preacher, who is supposed to live a modest and faithful life has a Hummer and a mistress in the congregation?

No one said a preacher is supposed to be modest, it’s a suggestion so they will not fall in to a trap of sinful ways. A mistress is not necessarily bad unless it is breaking vows and is deceitful in nature. The reason, because society has moved away from the truth. If they are really God’s servants, then it is sad they are in that position, but for some reason they are. [/quote]
Ok, let’s say you killed me, right? At your trial you say God made you do it. Do you think

A. You’ll be taken for psych batteries
B. You will be tested to determine your one on one relationship with God

Homeless who claim to be Jesus is the focus now. If that guy who asked you for a dollar yesterday suddenly told you that he was Jesus what would your reaction be?

and I’ve always been taught that preachers were to remain faithful to vows as well as their wives. I guess that is wrong too. As for modesty, wasnt Christianity based on a teaching he huddled masses of poverty? So with that in mind how can you follow a man who contradicts what he stands for? Unless I’m wrong about Jesus being poor too?


#11

Jesus wasn’t a bum, he was a carpenter, a normal working man. Are you calling someone who works with their hands a bum now?

Your reference to ‘extreme ways of communicating’ is bunk, as once Jesus ascended to heaven, he left the Holy Spirit in his place to guide his people. theology 101. Any more questions?


#12

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
not applying them as norm Steey, but you have to admit it is common, while it is extreme.
[/quote]

Sorry. I don’t buy that it is common. Common, yet extreme? Maybe it’s common in television, movies, and novels, but in real life, I think you’re way off.

Show me a bum walking around curing cancer by ‘laying of hands’, and I’ll show you a guy who gets lots of “camera time”.

You want discussion. I believe the premise on which you base your post is flawed and unreasonable. Absurd is just that. It’s not a personal attack on you (which is rampant in these forums), but a choice of words refuting your (IMO flawed) premise.


#13

“I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.”

So, for a homeless guy to be Jesus he has to carry a sword. No sword, it can’t be him.


#14

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Ct. Rockula wrote:
not applying them as norm Steey, but you have to admit it is common, while it is extreme.

Sorry. I don’t buy that it is common. Common, yet extreme? Maybe it’s common in television, movies, and novels, but in real life, I think you’re way off.

as for acknowledging Jesus, do you really think the general public would take the time out to actually listen to a bum? Especially if said bum was claiming divinity? I agree, with time teachings and deeds could prove his identity, but how many people would really pay attention to the crazy guy shouting “turn the other cheek”? Do you deny a disconnect between today’s society and religion?

Show me a bum walking around curing cancer by ‘laying of hands’, and I’ll show you a guy who gets lots of “camera time”.

I’d appreciate it if you’d not call my question absurd. I’m just posing thoughts here. Argument is not really my goal, although it seems to run wild on this forum.

You want discussion. I believe the premise on which you base your post is flawed and unreasonable. Absurd is just that. It’s not a personal attack on you (which is rampant in these forums), but a choice of words refuting your (IMO flawed) premise.[/quote]

yes, an extreme common. with our population in mind. kinda made it up on the fly. I do not own any TV’s or desire to watch any movies so my opinion is my own. You have solved that question of homeless Jesus for me. but why does it take miracles for someone to belive? Shouldnt you belive based on truest that your savior wont deceive you or allow others to?

my thought behind it was the initial reaction of someone telling you he’s Jesus. Switching it, what if it was some ordinary person not homeless, just a regular guy. The guy at the gas station working the register at 230 in the morning say "hey, I’m Jesus…How do you react?


#15

How’d I react? I’d shoot you. Then go have a beer with Jesus Ortiz, my friend who works at the gas station.


#16

I work with several people who claim to be Jesus though they normally shorten it to Chuy.


#17

Well, in 2Cr 8:17, Paul clearly states “For indeed he accepted the exhortation; but being more forward, of his own Accord he went unto you.”

So I expect Jesus, bum or not, to show up in a Honda.


#18

[quote]pookie wrote:
Well, in 2Cr 8:17, Paul clearly states “For indeed he accepted the exhortation; but being more forward, of his own Accord he went unto you.”

So I expect Jesus, bum or not, to show up in a Honda.
[/quote]

Awesome.

ALthough I always figured he’d be driving a VW bug.


#19

[quote]pookie wrote:
Well, in 2Cr 8:17, Paul clearly states “For indeed he accepted the exhortation; but being more forward, of his own Accord he went unto you.”

So I expect Jesus, bum or not, to show up in a Honda.
[/quote]

Hah that made me actually “LoL”


#20

What I find funny is that people are 100% willing to accept as valid prayers and “answers” to said prayers, with no evidence other than a warm fuzzy feeling when they pray, or some subsequent event which could easily be explained by an alternate cause.

Yet when someone else makes the same claim, they often get ridiculed by these very same people. Especially when their claim contradicts their own belief system in some way.