By that reasoning, most countries of the world are like that.
Is Japanese an official language in USA? French? Portuguese? Can you find official documents in German or Korean?
Do people in the southern states have the duty to speak and understand Spanish?
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Chili is absolutely American, even if the real stuff is also regional.
[/quote]
I guess I can just surrender to that logic.
I will ignore the fact that Spanish conquerors spread it around Europe and Asia where it was incorporated into their cuisine before USA even existed.[/quote]
Now you are just lying Edevus. They may have had meat stew but they sure as fuck didn’t have chili. I’m willing to bet you’ve never had chili though and can’t hold your ignorance against you.
If rice and meat plus seasonings popular in Spain make a dish Spanish then bread and sausage with toppings popular in America make hot dogs American. Ketchup and Mustard are ours, and I don’t care if the Mustard seed originates in India. They make curry and turmeric with it, not the full monty Mustard. [/quote]
USA is a very, very young country compared to most European nations (who have changed names and stuff though), thus, things like culture (which includes food) is very pale compared to Spain, Italy, Great Britain (you were a former colony, remember?), etc.
[quote]benos4752 wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Chili is absolutely American, even if the real stuff is also regional.
[/quote]
I guess I can just surrender to that logic.
I will ignore the fact that Spanish conquerors spread it around Europe and Asia where it was incorporated into their cuisine before USA even existed.[/quote]
So if any country besides America takes a universal concept (rice and meat, meat stew, etc) and jazzs it up with a few different spices, it’s a cultural dish. If America does it, we’re just copying another culture, no matter how we do it?
Got it. Thanks for the clearity you pompous, European hypocrite. [/quote]
Paella is not rice and meat. To begin with, you can have a fish paella which has nor rice, nor meat. What you are missing is that “paella” is the pan where it is cooked, not the dish itself. The dish is named after the pan where it is cooked. A special pan.
I hope this helps you with the “clearity”, whatever that is.[/quote]
Arguably a fish paella would be so separated from the original dish its not the same thing at all. The original meat was snail with some small game like rabbit if a working guy got lucky that day. Through …oh lets say cultural shifting dishes such as seafood paella have come about. Much like the culture in the US shifts a dish so its only remotely close to an original and I’ll name some dishes I think are close enough to being American cuisine.
Another thing that needs to be realized in discussions like this is that America is fucking big geographically. Texas is bigger than European countries the US is going to have a much greater regional diversity in cooking than a place like Spain for example so its going to be much more difficult to pin down an American cuisine people will agree on.
In a later post you bring up that people that travel to America don’t have good food. You either have to be trolling. While America certainly has more shitty restaurants than the rest of the world we have more middling and great ones as well, everyone can’t simply have found only the poor restaurants. As well the restaurants that are the top tier in a country are generally going to not be tied town to a regional cuisine. I’d imagine Mugaritz, arguably the top restaurant currently in Spain, like any other top restaurant never gets tied down to a Spanish cuisine.
Their own statement on the food lends itself to this…
We understand gastronomy as a tool that can be used to share interests. We are nonconformists by nature. We work and seek answers to questions: these issues are the mainstays we hold on to in order to move forward.
Years ago, we started thinking about the established values and we realized that we felt ill at ease with them because they do not guarantee a better dining experience. What determines whether something is good? Are we less well-mannered if we serve a man first? Where do we draw the line to distinguish between an appetizer and a dish of vegetables? Does a meal end with the desserts?
Resolving such issues, the table centrepieces that rotate, oscillate and sway gain momentum. When the table lights up, the toing and froing grows weaker. In an allegory of desired balance, they stop.
The temporary result that is brought about by the answers to these questions is a culinary offer made up of dishes of varying types. Everything is designed to make you feel, but if you decide to come to Otzazulueta, we cannot anticipate what you will dine. Even though we individually select the best seasonal produce, the ingredients are decided on by the designs of nature, the vagaries of each season, each producers’ harvest. The end result is a personalized menu including fifteen dishes and the result of years of research, hundreds of tests until perfecting the techniques. If you are vegetarian, celiac or have an allergy or food intolerance, we adapt our menu to your needs, as long as you let us know in advance. Nothing is left to chance.
One table, one experience. Only you can choose whether to surrender to the experience or whether to resist.
So anyway to answer two of your points…there are many top caliber restaurants in the USA, more than any other country and also top caliber restaurants in any country are rarely tied to a particular regional cuisine.
Obviously if your friends hit the corner PF Chang’s instead of Momofuku the experience will be different.
I believe you said you were living in Estonia now. I cook a lot. And I like to eat. To be frank most Estonian traditional dishes don’t look appealing at all to me. I can’t imagine something like sült coming out as totally disgusting but I’ll try anything once. Dishes like this are never going to be considered great cuisine.
Some American dishes:
While fish chowders date back through all of recorded history , Manhattan style clam chowder definitely was developed in America.
Shoofly pie.
Fajitas(and not just describing a skirt steak as its used in Spain)…created in Texas not in Mexico. There you go HoustonGuy. 
This one is somewhat debated but if you talk to older Mexican women it was not part of the culinary tradition.
San Francisco sourdough bread is different than any other sourdough in the world…thank you Lactobacillus sanfrancisco.
This is one of my favorite cookbooks.
There are a lot of dishes that are ethnic his take is pretty much what we eat now and some more traditional dishes as well. It is very easy to find used and if you like to cook well worth having. It even has some stranger recipes like water melon rind pickles. Pretty much it has a go at most regional dishes and has the variations. It has the Texas style red chili…obviously made the proper way without beans and such :P, has the chile verde from New Mexico, has a cinncinati 5 way recipe taking the Texas chile to new highs…or lows depending on perspective.
This is part of my giant omnibus posting series called FOOOD YUUMMMMMY!
I don’t generally like the high end places as much as the neighborhood ones but if we are going to talk about exquisite foods…lol…we need to bring up restaurants where the term suits it. Not some neighborhood paella in Spain or some crawfish etouffee made by the guy down the block from me. While I might like this food better the whole experience isn’t exquisite like it is at the very top end restaurants.
Really I could have just posted this:
http://www.ethnic-spicy-food-and-more.com/historyofspanishfood.html
And said something like there is clearly no Spanish Cuisine its all Greek. But I like the feeling of having the largest post…and the biggest dic tionary.
[quote]Edevus wrote:
By that reasoning, most countries of the world are like that.
Is Japanese an official language in USA? French? Portuguese? Can you find official documents in German or Korean?
Do people in the southern states have the duty to speak and understand Spanish?
[/quote]
Fuck no. We speak American english and so does the rest of the world in business and political matters.
Too long for me to argue it now, but I will come back later.
Spanish cuisine was influenced, of course, but some dishes are almost exclusive to Spain due to weather and livestock like the pigs that “give” jamon serrano.
I’m not even talking about all the recipes that spawned from there.
The Romans were amazed that in Mallorca people ate snails. They were also amazed how guys with slings would sink their ships as well…
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
By that reasoning, most countries of the world are like that.
Is Japanese an official language in USA? French? Portuguese? Can you find official documents in German or Korean?
Do people in the southern states have the duty to speak and understand Spanish?
[/quote]
Fuck no. We speak American english and so does the rest of the world in business and political matters.[/quote]
American English…so it’s armor instead of armour and defense instead of defence.
Amazing.
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
By that reasoning, most countries of the world are like that.
Is Japanese an official language in USA? French? Portuguese? Can you find official documents in German or Korean?
Do people in the southern states have the duty to speak and understand Spanish?
[/quote]
Fuck no. We speak American english and so does the rest of the world in business and political matters.[/quote]
American English…so it’s armor instead of armour and defense instead of defence.
Amazing.[/quote]Kind of like spanish rice vs. dirty rice or fried rice.
And you’ve come full circle…
[quote]Edevus wrote:
American English…so it’s armor instead of armour and defense instead of defence.
Amazing.[/quote]
Okay… I couldn’t help laughing at this.
E, I would say that the world speak English. The Americans write American English.
HG, I really can’t hear the world speaking American English, seriously…
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
By that reasoning, most countries of the world are like that.
Is Japanese an official language in USA? French? Portuguese? Can you find official documents in German or Korean?
Do people in the southern states have the duty to speak and understand Spanish?
[/quote]
Fuck no. We speak American english and so does the rest of the world in business and political matters.[/quote]
American English…so it’s armor instead of armour and defense instead of defence.
Amazing.[/quote]Kind of like spanish rice vs. dirty rice or fried rice.
And you’ve come full circle…
[/quote]
Yeah, if you ignore how paella requires special pan and how paella doesn’t need rice to be paella.
I’m glad I don’t have to argue serious stuff with you, it’d be deeply annoying.
Damn… what the hell is going on in this place…?
Lol
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
Damn… what the hell is going on in this place…?
Lol[/quote]
We should have all agreed on the tipping matter.
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
By that reasoning, most countries of the world are like that.
Is Japanese an official language in USA? French? Portuguese? Can you find official documents in German or Korean?
Do people in the southern states have the duty to speak and understand Spanish?
[/quote]
Fuck no. We speak American english and so does the rest of the world in business and political matters.[/quote]
American English…so it’s armor instead of armour and defense instead of defence.
Amazing.[/quote]Kind of like spanish rice vs. dirty rice or fried rice.
And you’ve come full circle…
[/quote]
Yeah, if you ignore how paella requires special pan and how paella doesn’t need rice to be paella.
I’m glad I don’t have to argue serious stuff with you, it’d be deeply annoying.
[/quote]
Ok fine a wok or black iron pan vs. a paella pan. Still full circle. I require logical understanding to go deep on topics Edevus. If you can’t see your circle her we will talk about food here and my sex life in SAMA.
I banged a new bitch too btw, will be uploading pics soon. I fucked her right on the park bench she’s bent over in the upcoming picture.
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
By that reasoning, most countries of the world are like that.
Is Japanese an official language in USA? French? Portuguese? Can you find official documents in German or Korean?
Do people in the southern states have the duty to speak and understand Spanish?
[/quote]
Fuck no. We speak American english and so does the rest of the world in business and political matters.[/quote]
American English…so it’s armor instead of armour and defense instead of defence.
Amazing.[/quote]Kind of like spanish rice vs. dirty rice or fried rice.
And you’ve come full circle…
[/quote]
Yeah, if you ignore how paella requires special pan and how paella doesn’t need rice to be paella.
I’m glad I don’t have to argue serious stuff with you, it’d be deeply annoying.
[/quote]
The point is all food develops from factors brought in from other cultures. Spain is a much part of this as anywhere else. You want to defend Spanish food out of some weird nationalism or something and try to negate the cultural factors like the greeks, moors, and romans that came into it, while at the same time claiming chili isn’t an American dish. There is a much greater possibility chili did develop completely in the USA than any dish you’ve listed from Spain. There is no chili to be found in traditional Mexican cooking for example. So this would be a missing step if it simply got absorbed.
All food is influenced by cultures before it and around it this is the process from the past and its ongoing.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
By that reasoning, most countries of the world are like that.
Is Japanese an official language in USA? French? Portuguese? Can you find official documents in German or Korean?
Do people in the southern states have the duty to speak and understand Spanish?
[/quote]
Fuck no. We speak American english and so does the rest of the world in business and political matters.[/quote]
American English…so it’s armor instead of armour and defense instead of defence.
Amazing.[/quote]Kind of like spanish rice vs. dirty rice or fried rice.
And you’ve come full circle…
[/quote]
Yeah, if you ignore how paella requires special pan and how paella doesn’t need rice to be paella.
I’m glad I don’t have to argue serious stuff with you, it’d be deeply annoying.
[/quote]
Ok fine a wok or black iron pan vs. a paella pan. Still full circle. I require logical understanding to go deep on topics Edevus. If you can’t see your circle her we will talk about food here and my sex life in SAMA.
I banged a new bitch too btw, will be uploading pics soon. I fucked her right on the park bench she’s bent over in the upcoming picture.
[/quote]
Your logic makes no sense at all. Maybe you’ve been eating too much chili…South American one.
[quote]groo wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
By that reasoning, most countries of the world are like that.
Is Japanese an official language in USA? French? Portuguese? Can you find official documents in German or Korean?
Do people in the southern states have the duty to speak and understand Spanish?
[/quote]
Fuck no. We speak American english and so does the rest of the world in business and political matters.[/quote]
American English…so it’s armor instead of armour and defense instead of defence.
Amazing.[/quote]Kind of like spanish rice vs. dirty rice or fried rice.
And you’ve come full circle…
[/quote]
Yeah, if you ignore how paella requires special pan and how paella doesn’t need rice to be paella.
I’m glad I don’t have to argue serious stuff with you, it’d be deeply annoying.
[/quote]
The point is all food develops from factors brought in from other cultures. Spain is a much part of this as anywhere else. You want to defend Spanish food out of some weird nationalism or something and try to negate the cultural factors like the greeks, moors, and romans that came into it, while at the same time claiming chili isn’t an American dish. There is a much greater possibility chili did develop completely in the USA than any dish you’ve listed from Spain. There is no chili to be found in traditional Mexican cooking for example. So this would be a missing step if it simply got absorbed.
All food is influenced by cultures before it and around it this is the process from the past and its ongoing.
[/quote]
Chili was spread and added to cuisine by the Spanish Empire around the world centuries before the USA was born.
I don’t negate the influence of other cultures in the Spanish culture (and food), but I can’t accept that chili is “American food” when it makes no sense due to the fact state just above.
It’s like stating that tea is a British thing.
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
By that reasoning, most countries of the world are like that.
Is Japanese an official language in USA? French? Portuguese? Can you find official documents in German or Korean?
Do people in the southern states have the duty to speak and understand Spanish?
[/quote]
Fuck no. We speak American english and so does the rest of the world in business and political matters.[/quote]
American English…so it’s armor instead of armour and defense instead of defence.
Amazing.[/quote]Kind of like spanish rice vs. dirty rice or fried rice.
And you’ve come full circle…
[/quote]
Yeah, if you ignore how paella requires special pan and how paella doesn’t need rice to be paella.
I’m glad I don’t have to argue serious stuff with you, it’d be deeply annoying.
[/quote]
Ok fine a wok or black iron pan vs. a paella pan. Still full circle. I require logical understanding to go deep on topics Edevus. If you can’t see your circle her we will talk about food here and my sex life in SAMA.
I banged a new bitch too btw, will be uploading pics soon. I fucked her right on the park bench she’s bent over in the upcoming picture.
[/quote]
Your logic makes no sense at all. Maybe you’ve been eating too much chili…South American one.
[/quote]
I thought you were smart Edevus, I really did. I liked your sarcastic dry humor but now I’ll have to re-analyze. Maybe just dumb observations?
You clearly have never had chili. Tell me about chili. What is it? What goes in to it? Ingredients? Cooking method?
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
I thought you were smart Edevus, I really did. I liked your sarcastic dry humor but now I’ll have to re-analyze. Maybe just dumb observations?
You clearly have never had chili. Tell me about chili. What is it? What goes in to it? Ingredients? Cooking method? [/quote]
Your arguments make no sense, so I adapt properly!
Do you want me to take about chili or paprika? Since I’ve eaten both. I like neither.
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]groo wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
By that reasoning, most countries of the world are like that.
Is Japanese an official language in USA? French? Portuguese? Can you find official documents in German or Korean?
Do people in the southern states have the duty to speak and understand Spanish?
[/quote]
Fuck no. We speak American english and so does the rest of the world in business and political matters.[/quote]
American English…so it’s armor instead of armour and defense instead of defence.
Amazing.[/quote]Kind of like spanish rice vs. dirty rice or fried rice.
And you’ve come full circle…
[/quote]
Yeah, if you ignore how paella requires special pan and how paella doesn’t need rice to be paella.
I’m glad I don’t have to argue serious stuff with you, it’d be deeply annoying.
[/quote]
The point is all food develops from factors brought in from other cultures. Spain is a much part of this as anywhere else. You want to defend Spanish food out of some weird nationalism or something and try to negate the cultural factors like the greeks, moors, and romans that came into it, while at the same time claiming chili isn’t an American dish. There is a much greater possibility chili did develop completely in the USA than any dish you’ve listed from Spain. There is no chili to be found in traditional Mexican cooking for example. So this would be a missing step if it simply got absorbed.
All food is influenced by cultures before it and around it this is the process from the past and its ongoing.
[/quote]
Chili was spread and added to cuisine by the Spanish Empire around the world centuries before the USA was born.
I don’t negate the influence of other cultures in the Spanish culture (and food), but I can’t accept that chili is “American food” when it makes no sense due to the fact state just above.
It’s like stating that tea is a British thing.[/quote]
Please provide some support for chili as its understood now being spread by the Spanish empire. This is not the case in anything I’ve ever seen on its history. If you have some proof I am curious.
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
I thought you were smart Edevus, I really did. I liked your sarcastic dry humor but now I’ll have to re-analyze. Maybe just dumb observations?
You clearly have never had chili. Tell me about chili. What is it? What goes in to it? Ingredients? Cooking method? [/quote]
Your arguments make no sense, so I adapt properly!
Do you want me to take about chili or paprika? Since I’ve eaten both. I like neither.[/quote]
Just give me a spanish chili recipe
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
I thought you were smart Edevus, I really did. I liked your sarcastic dry humor but now I’ll have to re-analyze. Maybe just dumb observations?
You clearly have never had chili. Tell me about chili. What is it? What goes in to it? Ingredients? Cooking method? [/quote]
Your arguments make no sense, so I adapt properly!
Do you want me to take about chili or paprika? Since I’ve eaten both. I like neither.[/quote]
Wait are you equating chili with the spice only?
This is what we mean something like this:
Seven-chile chili
Ingredients:
6 anchos
2 pasilla
2 costeñas
2 guajillos
4 chiles de arbol
4 pieces of bacon
4 pounds of chuck roast, cut into 1/4 inch cubes
1 large onion diced
6 cloves of garlic, crushed
1 cup of brewed coffee
1 bottle of beer
2 cups of water
1/2 tsp cinnamon
1/2 tsp clove
1/2 tsp allspice
1 tsp coriander
1/2 tsp cayenne
1 tablespoon cumin
(For all spices, please feel free to add more to taste throughout cooking if you like.)
2 chipotles in adobo
Salt to taste
1/4 cup masa harina
1/3 Mexican hot chocolate tablet, grated
Method:
Heat the dried chiles (anchos, pasillas, costenos, guajillos and chiles de arbol) in a dry, cast-iron skillet on medium for a couple of minutes on each side. Turn off the heat and then add enough water to the skillet to cover the chiles, and let them soak for half an hour.
Meanwhile, in a large heavy pot, such as a Dutch oven, fry up your bacon. When done, remove from pan and crumble (Donâ??t worry if you opt to eat a sliceâ??you deserve it!) and leave the bacon grease in the pot (it should be about 3) tablespoons. In the pot, cook your beef in the bacon grease on medium heat, a few minutes on each side until lightly browned. You will probably have to cook these in two batches.
Remove the browned beef from the pot, and add your onions. Cook on medium until clear. Add the garlic and cook for another minute. Put the beef back in the pot, and mix in the coffee, the beer, two cups of water, bacon crumbles and the dry spices. Turn the heat up to high.
Your soaking chiles should be soft by now. Drain them and discard the soaking water (it will be bitter) and place them in a blender along with the canned chipotle chiles and one cup of fresh water. Puree until nice and smooth and then add the chile puree to the chili pot.
When chili begins to boil, turn heat down to low and let simmer for five hours, stirring occasionally. Taste it once an hour, and if the flavors are too muted, feel free to add more of any of the spices. Also, it starts to get too dry, add more liquid (your choice!).
After five hours, take a Mexican hot chocolate disc, and finely grate 1/3 of it into the pot. Scoop out 1 cup of broth and add the masa harina. Mix it well and then reincorporate it back into the pot. Stir until chili is thickened.
Let the chili simmer for another half hour or so. When done, serve with cheddar, onions and tortillas.