T Nation

Understanding My Blood Work


#1

Im 20 years old, back in march-april i did a cycle of Hdrol 50/50/75/75/75/75. Still not feeling fully recovered. Balls are not back to normal size, weak erections, low libido, etc. Decided to get blood work done before doing another pct:

Testosterone, Serum - 538
LH- 7.1
FSH- 4.0
Estradiol- 27.3

Can someone please help me understand these results, and maybe give me some advice on where to go from here. I was thinking of doing another pct (nolva/clomid), or even just clomid 100/100/50/50. But i dont want to take anything until i know for sure. This blood work was done first thing in the morning without food, and I have been taking DAA for the past week.

Thanks


#2

Looks like everything is within normal ranges, but sometimes thats hard to tell especially when some things fall within the low range, in your case leutinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone are on the low end. It may or may not be a problem. Heres a link to normal range reference you may find helpful, it also provides a bit of explanation on what they are and what they do:

http://www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/hrt_ref.htm


#3

Okay, thank you for the reply. I didn't really think my FSH and LH levels were low, but I will read on that more. The thing that concerns me right now is ball size and my total testosterone being only 538. I will probably go ahead and run a 4-6 week cycle of clomid (50/50/50/50), adding in .25-.5 mg of arimidex EOD to E3D. Not sure on the arimidex yet but I feel the clomid with help with ball size and also overall test levels.


#4

What's the reference ranges?

You need stop the DAA and do another test to get a better idea.

Sometimes Having high LH and and test towards the low end isn't good. Stop the DAA and re test to get a better reading of what your body is naturally producing.

Try getting prolactin check.


#5

Well I was only taking the DAA 5 days before my test. So I highly doubt it would have a significant effect on my levels in that small period of time. Unfortunately I did not get blood work done before my cycle, so I do not have a baseline. I can see what you are saying though. So if my LH is towards the high end, but my test is on the lower side, does that mean my testes are not responding to the LH being produced?


#6

Your LH is a bit high indicating a tiny lack of testocular sensitivity since test levels are about average (LH range 1-10), test (250-850-1000) This isnt really enough info to know. You shouldnt suffer estrogen sides but your estrogen could be lower potentially. An LH increase with testicular sensitivity decrease is common in aging men. However, shbg, vitamin d deficiency, elevated prolactin, high cortisol, lack of erections. zinc deficiency, low fat diet, unhealthy heart, calcium levels can be causes. So if i were you, i would try to get some hands on hcg from the doctor or a source, dose it low and see where that gets you after maybe 10 days. Then use another clomid/nolva pct. logically your balls should regain size on their own with time. Get all the vitamins, minerals, amino acids that your nuts can use.


#7

That would be a valid assumption, but your LH is on the low end, normal range was 2-18 so I believe.


#8

So would I need HCG then if that was the case? I don't understand how a pro hormone as mild as Hdrol could do this to my system when there are people out there who can abuse for years and recover fine


#9

No c.m.l. The lh level of young adult men is usually between 1 to 8.6 or sometimes, 10. Only during puberty does LH fluctuate that high. Even then, the LH is acting similarly to HCG in starting puberty and increasing testicular sensitivity, growth, etc. only in women are lh levels normally over 10. Exception: men with klinefelters

No, you dont need hcg. That is if you are concerned you wont't recover. What will logically happen in the coming months is your LH will fall without any stimulation, following which your balls sensitivity will reincrease. May take time, usually 4 months to a year or sometimes 2 for full stabilization. But all testosterones are suppressive, and a 6 week cycle is not going to be any different. If you do prohormones I'd stick to 4. Like i said, optimizing vitamin D, zinc, etc. will make your balls recover much faster. After pct, you dont want to become dependent on more pct compounds. You want to give your body the nutrients it needs to work on its own. Vitamins, amino acids, and minerals are nutrients. Plants found in africa (not commonly in food supply), and prescription/artifical items are not. HCG would just increase the sensitivity immediately, reversing atleast your symptoms and small balls (while potentially having no effect on T since LH should come down in the next few months). Basically, regardless of your T level, it would bring you closer to stabilization faster. Step 1: reboot balls. Step 2: signal pituitary to release gonatropins. That's the simple answer.


#10

Okay, so, you're saying clomid is okay to take then?


#11

Yes. But i wouldnt take it until after hcg. Essentially you will stimulate your pituitary with it. I would think hypothetically that it would stimulate your testes. However, i will make a note to tell you that clomid above 50 mg for more than 4 weeks decreases lnrh sensitivity. Tamoxifen (nolva) upregulates it at 20 mg after even 6. So logically, clomid 50/50/50/50 and nolva 20/20/20/20/20/20 would be smarter.


#12

But you told me in the previous post I don't need Hcg lol


#13

edit


#14

Ok then, the ranges I based it on were from the link provided. However if you already have high LH, what would be the added benefit of stimulating the pituitary?

If LH is high and test is low it may be an insensitivity within the leydig cells to the luetinizing hormone itself. If you look at his other thread one of the test boosters he was taking had as the main ingredient powdered ovine placenta which provides ECG, something analagous to hcg. If it was working through that pathway at an appreciable dose, its not too far fetched to assume an insensitivity.

To be honest though I'm not so sure anything is too far off track, you may just need time to readjust.


#15

You dont need hcg. Would it help, yes. In 10 years tho, you wont be able to tell a difference of if you used it or not more than likely. If this was your only cycle And i don't buy into a lot of the plant science. It most likely won't hurt, but tribulus was all the rage for a few years, then new studies come out and disclaim a herb. Could it work? Maybe a little. If it makes you horny its doing something i guess.


#16

Well thank you guys for all the info. I am just trying to get back to normal and get past this. I don't plan on touching hormones again. Because it's honestly not worth it if it's going to be like this.

I am probay going to just go ahead and do the clomid (50/50/50/50), and then .5 mg of arimidex E3D. If you guys think that would be a good way to go then I will just do that without using the HCG.


#17

Hcg is like LH, so essentially you want to use like 250 ius for 12 days or so to make the balls gain size, then, because of exogenous hcg, it would be a good idea to introduce serms. I was simply noting that it was not medically necessary, because slightly atrophied balls is not a permanent condition from a small cycle and time will be a cure all given a proper lifestyle. You can try another round of serms if you want but it may not do anything additional without hcg. Your gonatropins are already producing at a high level. I said give your body nutrients, lift harder, and avoid prescription drugs. Would another round of clomid kill you, no. But short of hcg then clomid, you really need to let your nuts recuperate.


#18

I just want my libido back. Being in college and not having a libido is killing me. Maybe I will just continue the DAA that I am taking, and pick up some tribulus and ZMAs. My lifestyle is pretty healthy, and I'm still making strength gains...(just hit 500 on deadlifts last week). Thanks for the advice.


#19

Nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to their regimens report an increased sense of well-being and also libido. You should benefit as well because these are genuine quality of life issues, but you're not going to die without taking hcg.

The HCG you take will stimulate Leydig cells, those who still function to produce endogenous
testosterone.

This will support testicular size. Don't underestimate how bigger balls can enhance your life.

You may also suffer decreased pregenenolone levels, which is the first step after chol in all three hormonal pathways which begin with chol. HCG increases pregnenolone production, and therefore restores a more natural balance of our hormones.


#20

Now just hypothetically speaking. Could I even go as far as just doing a 10 week cycle of test, and then do the HCG, clomid, nolva pct? Or would that just hinder my recovery even more?