T Nation

Understanding Glucose


#1

ok.. so i understand all the ranges they list, like being over 140 2 hours after eating is indicative of diabetes but isn't there a certain number of carbs that must be eaten to pertain to this number?

Like say I have 60g of carbs and i test under 140, then I'm fine right, but what if I ate a whole pizza and some cake, and tested over 140, does that mean I have diabetes?

Also, say i ate high carbs all day, does this cause a stacking effect on blood glucose? if you have normal blood glucose and say you eat 150g of carbs a meal for a refeed day or something, will your glucose not have enough time to drop between meals and thus continue to be higher each consecutive meal? Is that normal?

Or is there a certain number or range that your glucose should never exceed regardless of the amount of carbs eaten? Say I ate 3 whole pizzas within 45 minutes and tested my glucose 2 hours afterwards, should my glucose be under 140 if I am not diabetic? I'm just wondering where they are getting this 140 number and how many carbs they are basing this number off of. Surely it depends on the amount of carbs eaten right? and the spacing of your meals?

Someone help this shit is driving me crazy.


#2

Both chronically elevated and temporarily spiked glucose can be dangerous. There is a blood glucose level you should never go over regardless of how much you eat. I think something like 600 will put you in a coma and maybe kill you, but I’m not sure the threshold where you could start doing minor damage is.


#3

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Both chronically elevated and temporarily spiked glucose can be dangerous. There is a blood glucose level you should never go over regardless of how much you eat. I think something like 600 will put you in a coma and maybe kill you, but I’m not sure the threshold where you could start doing minor damage is.[/quote]

Ok. So around 6pm yesterday i had cheesecake. Blueberry muffins and a chicken wrap. Probably around 200g carbs.
Then around 930 i had a whole small pizza And cookies. Checked glucose 2 or so hrs later and it was 154. Is that a normal or bad reading?


#4

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Both chronically elevated and temporarily spiked glucose can be dangerous. There is a blood glucose level you should never go over regardless of how much you eat. I think something like 600 will put you in a coma and maybe kill you, but I’m not sure the threshold where you could start doing minor damage is.[/quote]

Ok. So around 6pm yesterday i had cheesecake. Blueberry muffins and a chicken wrap. Probably around 200g carbs.
Then around 930 i had a whole small pizza And cookies. Checked glucose 2 or so hrs later and it was 154. Is that a normal or bad reading?
[/quote]

That depends entirely on what you were at at 1 hour. If you were lower than that at one hour it is pretty normal. If you were higher it is not, because it meant that you spent over an hour above 154 and were still decreasing.

People briefly touch over 140 without harm. Over 140 for a long time can start to cause the pancreas to be damaged.

At 180 the kidneys start spilling glucose into urine, so that’s definintely a line that should not be crossed.

Higher fat meals can actually produce a late carb spike.

I would test a meal like you had at 1 hour and at 2 hours. If the two results average less than 140 it is probably OK. If they average less than 130 it is pretty normal, like 120 and 140 or 140 and 120. If they average 120 it is good glucose control.

It is very hard to eat yourself over 180. There are other factors too. Blood sugar goes up if you are overtraining, or under stress, or sick, or if you trained VERY intensely.

I personally have done two glucose tolerance tests, and I actually return to fasting levels (90s) within one hour, but then rise slowly to the two hour mark, and go up to 120-150 (depending on how few carbs I have been eating. If I’ve been low carbing I will go HIGHER).

So I’d say though that a 150 at the 2 hour point means you are eating too many carbs. It is a stress on the system to be over 140 very long.

I would never eat 200 grams of carbs in one meal. I don’t train much high reps like a bodybuilder though. It also shows why it is more important to get carbs before and during training if you train intensely. Stress hormones block insulin action! They don’t increase it.


#5

[quote]mertdawg wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Both chronically elevated and temporarily spiked glucose can be dangerous. There is a blood glucose level you should never go over regardless of how much you eat. I think something like 600 will put you in a coma and maybe kill you, but I’m not sure the threshold where you could start doing minor damage is.[/quote]

Ok. So around 6pm yesterday i had cheesecake. Blueberry muffins and a chicken wrap. Probably around 200g carbs.
Then around 930 i had a whole small pizza And cookies. Checked glucose 2 or so hrs later and it was 154. Is that a normal or bad reading?
[/quote]

That depends entirely on what you were at at 1 hour. If you were lower than that at one hour it is pretty normal. If you were higher it is not, because it meant that you spent over an hour above 154 and were still decreasing.

People briefly touch over 140 without harm. Over 140 for a long time can start to cause the pancreas to be damaged.

At 180 the kidneys start spilling glucose into urine, so that’s definintely a line that should not be crossed.

Higher fat meals can actually produce a late carb spike.

I would test a meal like you had at 1 hour and at 2 hours. If the two results average less than 140 it is probably OK. If they average less than 130 it is pretty normal, like 120 and 140 or 140 and 120. If they average 120 it is good glucose control.

It is very hard to eat yourself over 180. There are other factors too. Blood sugar goes up if you are overtraining, or under stress, or sick, or if you trained VERY intensely.

I personally have done two glucose tolerance tests, and I actually return to fasting levels (90s) within one hour, but then rise slowly to the two hour mark, and go up to 120-150 (depending on how few carbs I have been eating. If I’ve been low carbing I will go HIGHER).

So I’d say though that a 150 at the 2 hour point means you are eating too many carbs. It is a stress on the system to be over 140 very long.

I would never eat 200 grams of carbs in one meal. I don’t train much high reps like a bodybuilder though. It also shows why it is more important to get carbs before and during training if you train intensely. Stress hormones block insulin action! They don’t increase it. [/quote]

Yeah it was mainly a binge day for my bday and i just got done doing a show where prep consisted of low to no carb most of the time, im getting back on my diet and will monitor fasting levels, is that the best way to tell?


#6

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]mertdawg wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Both chronically elevated and temporarily spiked glucose can be dangerous. There is a blood glucose level you should never go over regardless of how much you eat. I think something like 600 will put you in a coma and maybe kill you, but I’m not sure the threshold where you could start doing minor damage is.[/quote]

Ok. So around 6pm yesterday i had cheesecake. Blueberry muffins and a chicken wrap. Probably around 200g carbs.
Then around 930 i had a whole small pizza And cookies. Checked glucose 2 or so hrs later and it was 154. Is that a normal or bad reading?
[/quote]

That depends entirely on what you were at at 1 hour. If you were lower than that at one hour it is pretty normal. If you were higher it is not, because it meant that you spent over an hour above 154 and were still decreasing.

People briefly touch over 140 without harm. Over 140 for a long time can start to cause the pancreas to be damaged.

At 180 the kidneys start spilling glucose into urine, so that’s definintely a line that should not be crossed.

Higher fat meals can actually produce a late carb spike.

I would test a meal like you had at 1 hour and at 2 hours. If the two results average less than 140 it is probably OK. If they average less than 130 it is pretty normal, like 120 and 140 or 140 and 120. If they average 120 it is good glucose control.

It is very hard to eat yourself over 180. There are other factors too. Blood sugar goes up if you are overtraining, or under stress, or sick, or if you trained VERY intensely.

I personally have done two glucose tolerance tests, and I actually return to fasting levels (90s) within one hour, but then rise slowly to the two hour mark, and go up to 120-150 (depending on how few carbs I have been eating. If I’ve been low carbing I will go HIGHER).

So I’d say though that a 150 at the 2 hour point means you are eating too many carbs. It is a stress on the system to be over 140 very long.

I would never eat 200 grams of carbs in one meal. I don’t train much high reps like a bodybuilder though. It also shows why it is more important to get carbs before and during training if you train intensely. Stress hormones block insulin action! They don’t increase it. [/quote]

Yeah it was mainly a binge day for my bday and i just got done doing a show where prep consisted of low to no carb most of the time, im getting back on my diet and will monitor fasting levels, is that the best way to tell?[/quote]

No. Fasting blood sugar can be fine for a pre-diabetic, especially if you have a lot of muscle to soak up the blood sugar over several hours.

I would check at both 1 hour and 2 hours after finishing a few meals. If they are both over 140 that is a problem.

Most healthy people have brief blood sugar rises above 140. Some think that it is even healthy to briefly go to go up around 140 occasionally after meals.

Again the problem is that different meals may peak at 1 hour or two hours.

Again if one is around 140 and the other is 100 that’s fine. If they are both around 120 that’s probably fine too. Just add them up.


#7

[quote]mertdawg wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]mertdawg wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Both chronically elevated and temporarily spiked glucose can be dangerous. There is a blood glucose level you should never go over regardless of how much you eat. I think something like 600 will put you in a coma and maybe kill you, but I’m not sure the threshold where you could start doing minor damage is.[/quote]

Ok. So around 6pm yesterday i had cheesecake. Blueberry muffins and a chicken wrap. Probably around 200g carbs.
Then around 930 i had a whole small pizza And cookies. Checked glucose 2 or so hrs later and it was 154. Is that a normal or bad reading?
[/quote]

That depends entirely on what you were at at 1 hour. If you were lower than that at one hour it is pretty normal. If you were higher it is not, because it meant that you spent over an hour above 154 and were still decreasing.

People briefly touch over 140 without harm. Over 140 for a long time can start to cause the pancreas to be damaged.

At 180 the kidneys start spilling glucose into urine, so that’s definintely a line that should not be crossed.

Higher fat meals can actually produce a late carb spike.

I would test a meal like you had at 1 hour and at 2 hours. If the two results average less than 140 it is probably OK. If they average less than 130 it is pretty normal, like 120 and 140 or 140 and 120. If they average 120 it is good glucose control.

It is very hard to eat yourself over 180. There are other factors too. Blood sugar goes up if you are overtraining, or under stress, or sick, or if you trained VERY intensely.

I personally have done two glucose tolerance tests, and I actually return to fasting levels (90s) within one hour, but then rise slowly to the two hour mark, and go up to 120-150 (depending on how few carbs I have been eating. If I’ve been low carbing I will go HIGHER).

So I’d say though that a 150 at the 2 hour point means you are eating too many carbs. It is a stress on the system to be over 140 very long.

I would never eat 200 grams of carbs in one meal. I don’t train much high reps like a bodybuilder though. It also shows why it is more important to get carbs before and during training if you train intensely. Stress hormones block insulin action! They don’t increase it. [/quote]

Yeah it was mainly a binge day for my bday and i just got done doing a show where prep consisted of low to no carb most of the time, im getting back on my diet and will monitor fasting levels, is that the best way to tell?[/quote]

No. Fasting blood sugar can be fine for a pre-diabetic, especially if you have a lot of muscle to soak up the blood sugar over several hours.

I would check at both 1 hour and 2 hours after finishing a few meals. If they are both over 140 that is a problem.

Most healthy people have brief blood sugar rises above 140. Some think that it is even healthy to briefly go to go up around 140 occasionally after meals.

Again the problem is that different meals may peak at 1 hour or two hours.

Again if one is around 140 and the other is 100 that’s fine. If they are both around 120 that’s probably fine too. Just add them up.

[/quote]

But doesnt it depend on the type of carbs im consuming? And also what my glucose was prior to eating again? And dont i have to account for the tolerance in the glucose meter im using?


#8

Ok i guess my real question is how many carbs should i be consuming in each meal


#9

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:
Ok i guess my real question is how many carbs should i be consuming in each meal[/quote]

I would say the real question is why your post-prandial glucose was 154 (assuming that’s a legit reading; many glucometers are quite inaccurate). That’s a little high for someone your age. If insulin use has figured prominently in your training, it might be worth a conversation with your physician.


#10

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:
Ok i guess my real question is how many carbs should i be consuming in each meal[/quote]

I would say the real question is why your post-prandial glucose was 154 (assuming that’s a legit reading; many glucometers are quite inaccurate). That’s a little high for someone your age. If insulin use has figured prominently in your training, it might be worth a conversation with your physician. [/quote]

So are you saying the amount of carbs eaten before a test has no merit on the reading?


#11

It matters. People who bing have been found to eat so much that they achieve hyperglycemia after a meal. Also, I showed a short study of long time near-zero carb eaters who got post prandial blood sugar as high as 250 from 100 grams of glucose liquid, but when they went on a moderate carb diet for 2 weeks their post prandial numbers were pretty normal (120-150 peaks).

Are you using anything that might stimulate the adrenals? Adrenal stimulation followed by a large carb eating can put you up there.

But most people will see little difference in peak from 200 grams of carbs than from 75 grams. Keep in mind that over 140 is considered to be pre-diabetic at 2 hours for a 75 gram glucose drink, so 200 grams of starch which will tend to hit you on a delay is going to put almost every one over 140. The question is “when”. Did the 150+ blood sugar represent your peak level, or did you peak much higher earlier.

With such a large load I think that a peak around 2 hours makes sense. First, your stomach will only let out a little at a time if it is properly functional and insulin will actually stimulate the release so your stomach may have let out a little, gradually over a few hours. You could have been 150 for a while though.

Also after eating so much, the liver will take in the blood sugar first (and some will go straight to the liver without going into the blood) but at the liver gets so full it may dump glucose into the blood 2-4 hours later in a rebound after the initial insulin.


#12

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
It matters. People who bing have been found to eat so much that they achieve hyperglycemia after a meal. Also, I showed a short study of long time near-zero carb eaters who got post prandial blood sugar as high as 250 from 100 grams of glucose liquid, but when they went on a moderate carb diet for 2 weeks their post prandial numbers were pretty normal (120-150 peaks).

Are you using anything that might stimulate the adrenals? Adrenal stimulation followed by a large carb eating can put you up there.

But most people will see little difference in peak from 200 grams of carbs than from 75 grams. Keep in mind that over 140 is considered to be pre-diabetic at 2 hours for a 75 gram glucose drink, so 200 grams of starch which will tend to hit you on a delay is going to put almost every one over 140. The question is “when”. Did the 150+ blood sugar represent your peak level, or did you peak much higher earlier.

With such a large load I think that a peak around 2 hours makes sense. First, your stomach will only let out a little at a time if it is properly functional and insulin will actually stimulate the release so your stomach may have let out a little, gradually over a few hours. You could have been 150 for a while though.

Also after eating so much, the liver will take in the blood sugar first (and some will go straight to the liver without going into the blood) but at the liver gets so full it may dump glucose into the blood 2-4 hours later in a rebound after the initial insulin.

[/quote]

Thats interesting you mention the no carb diet because i was on one for quite a while a week prior to this. But ive tested my glucose ob meals with around 80g carbs and 2 hrs later its like 120s but i will monitor it still.

So exactly how many carbs should i have before taking the 1 and two hour test and also what should my glucose be prior to starting the meal ill be testing hours later?


#13

75-100 grams of carbs and starting with a blood sugar under 100.

Also, by the way, if it is close to or above 140 at 2 hours, I would check again in 30 minutes to see if you clear that down a ways.


#14

You might want to look at this thread: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/diagnosed_as_prediabetic?id=6224109&pageNo=3


#15

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
75-100 grams of carbs and starting with a blood sugar under 100.

Also, by the way, if it is close to or above 140 at 2 hours, I would check again in 30 minutes to see if you clear that down a ways.

[/quote]

Sounds good ill give it a go tomorrow, thanks


#16

FWIW:
We had a women come into the ER that I was training in with a blood glucose of 1180.
Yes you read that correctly, 1180 ! Suffice it to say the Diabetic Coma she was in was not good.
Every single possible HealthCare provider was rounded up to be shown the results, which where drawn 3x over.
Not a pretty sight really.

Also, the nursing home that i have been doing my clinical rotations in has a few residents with blood sugar levels above 400.
There really is no reason why a reasonably intelligent person in their 40’s should be bringing Diabetes upon themselves,
much less those of younger years. Pathetic really how far humanity has fallen . … sigh.


#17

[quote]killerDIRK wrote:
FWIW:
We had a women come into the ER that I was training in with a blood glucose of 1180.
Yes you read that correctly, 1180 ! Suffice it to say the Diabetic Coma she was in was not good.
Every single possible HealthCare provider was rounded up to be shown the results, which where drawn 3x over.
Not a pretty sight really.

Also, the nursing home that i have been doing my clinical rotations in has a few residents with blood sugar levels above 400.
There really is no reason why a reasonably intelligent person in their 40’s should be bringing Diabetes upon themselves,
much less those of younger years. Pathetic really how far humanity has fallen . … sigh.[/quote]

Who is bringing diabetes upon themselves and how? Type II diabetes is even more genetically linked than type I but people have come to see it as the diabetes of behavior. Maybe some of the behaviors are genetic. Someone with a twin with type II is 75% likely to develop type II. With type I or autoimmune, there is only a 50% likelyhood of a twin also having it. http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/genetics-of-diabetes.html

Being overweight though is genetic of course and so dietary and health habit may be more likely to be similar in siblings.


#18

Thank You Mertdawg as I misspoke.
It is people that are pre-disposed and have been diagnosed with diabetes that get me flustered by not taking control of their dietary and exercise habits and choices.

The reason for my disdain is in the cost of health care insurance.
I would not expect to pay as little in premiums as say an Olympic or Elite athlete, but when 65% of the motherfuckers in my age group
are overweight/ obese/ morbidly obese and they drive insurance through the roof where I cannot get reasonable coverage…yeah, i’m pissed.

apologies to all for threadjack.

I’ll stfu now…


#19

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
Who is bringing diabetes upon themselves and how? Type II diabetes is even more genetically linked than type I but people have come to see it as the diabetes of behavior. [/quote]
Absolutely I think it follows that what people do has a great deal to do with development of Type II diabetes, rather than it being purely or principally a matter of their DNA sequence.

If it were purely or principally a matter of their DNA sequence, then the rate of Type II diabetes today would be similar to what it’s always been through history.

It’s not. It’s very much higher.

Further, various things one can choose to do will either improve biomarkers which are directly related to development of Type II diabetes, or worsen them.


#20

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
Who is bringing diabetes upon themselves and how? Type II diabetes is even more genetically linked than type I but people have come to see it as the diabetes of behavior. [/quote]
Absolutely I think it follows that what people do has a great deal to do with development of Type II diabetes, rather than it being purely or principally a matter of their DNA sequence.

If it were purely or principally a matter of their DNA sequence, then the rate of Type II diabetes today would be similar to what it’s always been through history.

It’s not. It’s very much higher.

Further, various things one can choose to do will either improve biomarkers which are directly related to development of Type II diabetes, or worsen them.

[/quote]

I do too. I was thinking that the poster was being more specific to the thread, that maybe he thought the OP was causing diabetes by eating 200 grams of carbs at one sitting. Some people can take down 200 grams of carbs and if they are not genetically prone, or if they were very active that might be fine. That was where I was headed actually. I didn’t realize the post was more general.